Prince Harry

[killer b]

Someone on twitter has just pointed out that it's pretty rich of Harry to rail against the 'racist' British media.

Wow, we've never seen that before.

 

[Santino]

Is that a problem?

I think in this case it's because you don't want to confront the endemic racism in society so you keep demanding more and more explanations until you can find some excuse to dismiss it all.

 

[Spymaster]

Someone on twitter has just pointed out that it's pretty rich of Harry to rail against the 'racist' British media.

It never ceases to amaze me what thoroughly insightful comment can be found on Twitter.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I think in this case it's because you don't want to confront the endemic racism in society so you keep demanding more and more explanations until you can find some excuse to dismiss it all.

Can you give me an example of a specific post that would suggest that?

 

[not-bono-ever]

Morgan is performance art.he is many things but not thick

 

[Edie]

Someone on twitter has just pointed out that it's pretty rich of Harry to rail against the 'racist' British media.

He was a kid ffs.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I know. I invaded czeckoslovakia when i was 15 and drunk. Etc

 

[Edie]

I know. I invaded czeckoslovakia when i was 15 and drunk

You never, I bet you got drunk in a park and acted like a twat like the rest of us

 

[not-bono-ever]

I know.

 

[Epona]

He was a kid ffs.

When I was a kid, much younger than that, I knew that was FUCKING WRONG.

 

[Athos]

Sasaferrato did you have a chance to think about the questions below? Because it seems to me that you've tacitly accepted that Harry, Megan, and the (then unborn) kid were on the receiving end of racism by a royal. I just wonder whether that made you examine your knee-jerk dismissal of racism as a factor in all this, at the outset. Specifically, whether you think there might have been an element of unconscious bias on your part? That's not necessarily a big deal; I'm sure we all do to a greater or lesser extent. But, it'd be a failing not address it when you do become conscious of it.

Because it is such a serious allegation, probably.

So...?

There is no other evidence (nor would you expect there to be of a private family discussion). So, based on what we do have i.e. Harry saying it happened (and nobody denyng it), do you think it more likely to have happened or not? Essentially, is it more likely that he made the whole thing up, or that (at least some of) the royal family behaved in a racist way with regard to her?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Morgan is performance art.he is many things but not thick

Sacked for publishing fake pictures of British soldiers abusing Iraqis, massively putting the lives of British soldiers at risk of extreme reprisals, yet he’s now rebranding himself as defender of the Monarchy? Pretty sure the forces-adoring queen thinks he’s a grade A cunt an’all.

 

[strung out]

Anyone who has done anything slightly dodgy in their distant past is not allowed to complain about racism against their wife now. Sorry, that's just the rules.

 

[Edie]

Sasaferrato did you have a chance to think about the questions below? Because it seems to me that you've tacitly accepted that Harry, Megan, and the (then unborn) kid were on the receiving end of racism by a royal. I just wonder whether that made you examine your knee-jerk dismissal of racism as a factor in all this, at the outset. Specifically, whether you think there might have been an element of unconscious bias on your part? That's not necessarily a big deal; I'm sure we all do to a greater or lesser extent. But, it'd be a failing not address it when you do become conscious of it.

Putting aside the swasticas, is that racist in an intentional way though? I do understand that it is racist in the sense of perpetuating colourism (which I think is the right term, or at least the term used in the guardian yesterday), and racism at a structural level. It has a weight of history and implied judgement behind it. But it’s also just crass. Insensitive. Ignorant. But it’s the kind of thing my in laws would say. Without knowing better. Ooh I wonder what colour the baby will be.

As another parallel. My mum saw a picture of this collage my lad had made out of comics. It had some semi naked women on it. She laughed and said ‘at least we know he’s normal’. And it’s like no Mum you can’t say that shit any more, there’s nothing wrong with being gay’. And she’s like ‘of course not, X and his boyfriend live in the house on the next road etc etc

 

[Epona]

OMFG

No seriously I feel like I am having a flashback to trying to explain to my gran why we don't use the word "coloured" these days.

 

[strung out]

Anyone who has done anything slightly dodgy in their distant past is not allowed to complain about racism against their wife now. Sorry, that's just the rules.

For what it's worth, I'm the same age as Harry, and also have a mixed race wife with a public profile who experiences regular racism, starting with her own family many years ago to social media now.

I find it utterly chilling the mental gymnastics some are going through to deny her or her husband's right to complain about racism. As if she somehow deserves it, or has no right to complain about any of it.

I've probably (and shamefully) done or said various dodgy things as a teenager or student, who thought I was right-on and above reproach. The thought that any of that could be used against me or my wife is pretty depressing all told.

 

[TopCat]

Putting aside the swasticas, is that racist in an intentional way though? I do understand that it is racist in the sense of perpetuating colourism (which I think is the right term, or at least the term used in the guardian yesterday), and racism at a structural level. It has a weight of history and implied judgement behind it. But it’s also just crass. Insensitive. Ignorant. But it’s the kind of thing my in laws would say. Without knowing better. Ooh I wonder what colour the baby will be.

I have brown kids. If my parents (who are white) made comments like that they likely would not have a relationship with them or me.

 

[Edie]

I have brown kids. If my parents (who are white) made comments like that they likely would not have a relationship with them or me.

So?

 

[Epona]

No-one. No-one at all who has ANY social awareness would ask how brown a baby is likely to be. Or care about it like it made a difference! If any of you think that is a normal question then you seriously need to take a long hard look at yourselves. And age/generation is no fucking excuse, it is never too late for people to educate themselves.

I am quite frankly shocked by some of the comments on this thread.

 

[TopCat]

So?

It’s racist shit.

 

[Spymaster]

No-one. No-one at all who has ANY social awareness would ask how brown a baby is likely to be. Or care about it like it made a difference! If any of you think that is a normal question then you seriously need to take a long hard look at yourselves. And age/generation is no fucking excuse, it is never too late for people to educate themselves.

I disagree with that I think. I think there’s space for a genuine question and interest as to what a mixed race child might look like. That’s probably quite normal actually. What’s important is how it was said and why, in what context. The fact that H&M have mentioned it points to the fact that they thought it was racist, so it pretty much certainly was.

 

[girasol]

For what it's worth, I'm the same age as Harry, and also have a mixed race wife with a public profile who experiences regular racism, starting with her own family many years ago to social media now.

I find it utterly chilling the metal gymnastics some are going through to deny her or her husband's right to complain about racism. As if she somehow deserves it, or has no right to complain about any of it.

I've probably (and shamefully) done or said various dodgy things as a teenager or student, who thought I was right-on and above reproach. The thought that any of that could be used against me or my wife is pretty depressing all told.

This, really. While they are rich, privileged people, blah, blah, blah, they have shone a light on how racist this country can be, in particular with regards to the British Press and also within the Royal Family. For that alone I see them as courageous, regardless of what they have done in the past, or whose earrings they wore when, or who made who cry or how upset they got about their son not having a prince title.

Also, Harry himself admitted to unconscious bias and being unaware of how racism felt and how pervasive it is until he started seeing Meghan.

 

[Athos]

Putting aside the swasticas, is that racist in an intentional way though? I do understand that it is racist in the sense of perpetuating colourism (which I think is the right term, or at least the term used in the guardian yesterday), and racism at a structural level. It has a weight of history and implied judgement behind it. But it’s also just crass. Insensitive. Ignorant. But it’s the kind of thing my in laws would say. Without knowing better. Ooh I wonder what colour the baby will be.

As another parallel. My mum saw a picture of this collage my lad had made out of comics. It had some semi naked women on it. She laughed and said ‘at least we know he’s normal’. And it’s like no Mum you can’t say that shit any more, there’s nothing wrong with being gay’. And she’s like ‘of course not, X and his boyfriend live in the house on the next road etc etc

Yeah. But, to my mind there's a big difference between unthinking (almost generational) racism, and failing to reflect when you're pulled up on it.

 

[Edie]

Yeah. But, to my mind there's a big difference between unthinking (almost generational) racism, and failing to reflect when you're pulled up on it.

Absolutely

 

[maomao]

I disagree with that I think. I think there’s space for a genuine question and interest as to what a mixed race child might look like. That’s probably quite normal actually

It is. Hair colour and type is usually a more interesting subject though.

 

[MickiQ]

Having had chance to think about it, I have completely changed my mind about this whole affair. The estranged grandchildren of the King will be growing up in Tinseltown where their opportunities to be a massive embarrassment to the Royal Family will be truly limitless.
Quite looking forward to the royal stories of 15-20 years from now.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It is. Hair colour and type is usually a more interesting subject though.

[JK] Insert obligatory joke about ginger hair here [/JK]

 

[Epona]

I disagree with that I think. I think there’s space for a genuine question and interest as to what a mixed race child might look like. That’s probably quite normal actually. What’s important is how it was said and why, in what context. The fact that H&M have mentioned it points to the fact that they thought it was racist, so it pretty much certainly was.

This assumes that we live in a post-racism world though, where there is no weight or value given to such a comment and it is purely a descriptor along the lines of "do you think she'll have eyes that look like yours or mine?" But we don't live in the world where that can be used purely descriptively. I know some folks here inexplicably love the royals, I guess every online community has its eccentrics... but defending the bunch of fuckwits that are the royal family and suggesting they couldn't possibly be racist or make a racist comment is just really quite bonkers tbh. I can't really put it any other way.

And defending someone wearing a nazi uniform and a swastika to go to a party - yes he may have been young, but even if he was thick as pigshit himself, if his family had any nouse they'd have told him not to go out like that. Apparently every move they make is monitored and regulated, apart from that one? No.

 

[Edie]

I disagree with that I think. I think there’s space for a genuine question and interest as to what a mixed race child might look like. That’s probably quite normal actually. What’s important is how it was said and why, in what context. The fact that H&M have mentioned it points to the fact that they thought it was racist, so it pretty much certainly was.

Exactly right.

 

[Edie]

This assumes that we live in a post-racism world though, where there is no weight or value given to such a comment and it is purely a descriptor along the lines of "do you think she'll have eyes that look like yours or mine?" But we don't live in the world where that can be used purely descriptively. I know some folks here inexplicably love the royals, I guess every online community has its eccentrics... but defending the bunch of fuckwits that are the royal family and suggesting they couldn't possibly be racist or make a racist comment is just really quite bonkers tbh. I can't really put it any other way.

And defending someone wearing a nazi uniform and a swastika to go to a party - yes he may have been young, but even if he was thick as pigshit himself, if his family had any nouse they'd have told him not to go out like that. Apparently every move they make is monitored and regulated, apart from that one? No.

He was a massive embarrassment for the swastica thing and deserved a slap round the head and some serious education about 20th century history and his family’s part in it. But to bring it up 20 years later when the guy has quite clearly fucking learnt from it is the mark of a twat.