Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit

[littlebabyjesus]

That was six months. And there's a reasonable argument for treating theft during riot as a violent crime, and sentencing accordingly.

No there is not.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

No there is not.

Riots are common enterprises and they are violent. When they are used as cover for acquisitive crime, that crime relies on violence. Seems fair for there to be some multiple on the sentencing.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Riots are a common enterprise and they are a violent one. When they are used as cover for acquisitive crime, that crime relies on violence. Seems fair for there to be some multiple on the sentencing.

Are we still talking about the bloke who got thirsty while out and about during a riot?

It was an act of revenge, carried out to show the terrible power of the state over the powerless masses and stop such unseemliness from happening again. The triviality of the offence is kind of the point in that sense - punish someone in a way that they don't deserve just to show that you can.

 

[nino_savatte]

Riots are common enterprises and they are violent. When they are used as cover for acquisitive crime, that crime relies on violence. Seems fair for there to be some multiple on the sentencing.

You're confusing rioting with looting. They're not the same thing. Looting takes place in the aftermath of rioting and most rioters aren't looters.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

You're confusing rioting with looting. They're not the same thing. Looting takes place in the aftermath of rioting and most rioters aren't looters.

Yes, the argument is properly that looting relies on rioting and that looters are therefore complicit in riot. That's the position the law takes, anyway. I'm not confusing anything with anything - I'm merely describing the thinking that informs the sentencing guidelines.

It seems like a sensible argument to me, although I'd only have given the bloke twelve weeks suspended and a week's community service.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Looting is walking into Dixon's and walking out with a nice tv. Taking a bottle of water because you're thirsty, and I'm guessing there weren't any shops actually serving at the time, is not looting.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Looting is walking into Dixon's and walking out with a nice tv. Taking a bottle of water because you're thirsty, and I'm guessing there weren't any shops actually serving at the time, is not looting.

Of course it's looting. And wherever the chap was, he would have been no more than a couple of miles from honestly-obtainable water. Thirst is not desperation or justification.

Anyway, this is derailing the thread for schadenfreude about Andrew Mountbatten.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course it's looting. And wherever the chap was, he would have been no more than a couple of miles from honestly-obtainable water. Thirst is not desperation or justification.

Anyway, this is derailing the thread for schadenfreude about Andrew Mountbatten.

It does show a nice juxtaposition between how you're treated depending on your position, though. Some people get thrown into jail for taking a bottle of water. Others get away with rape.

 

[Fez909]

I'm merely describing the thinking that informs the sentencing guidelines

And that would be fine if the sentencing guidelines actually applied. When the state wants to show its power, then the guidelines are meainingless.

Riots: magistrates advised to 'disregard normal sentencing'

 

[Maurice Picarda]

It does show a nice juxtaposition between how you're treated depending on your position, though. Some people get thrown into jail for taking a bottle of water. Others get away with rape.

It doesn't show anything about that highlighted point. It points to odd sentencing guidelines which are particularly harsh on violent property crime, and to a criminal justice system which is suboptimal at dealing with sexual exploitation.

But it doesn't say anything at all about whether princes and paupers are treated differently. Intuitively, one would assume that they are, but we'd need to contrast York with a less celebrated abuser to prove the case.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

And that would be fine if the sentencing guidelines actually applied. When the state wants to show its power, then the guidelines are meainingless.

Riots: magistrates advised to 'disregard normal sentencing'

That's still a guideline.

 

[Zabo]

Anyway, this is derailing the thread for schadenfreude about Andrew Mountbatten.

 

[Pickman's model]

Riots are common enterprises and they are violent. When they are used as cover for acquisitive crime, that crime relies on violence. Seems fair for there to be some multiple on the sentencing.

one would seem appropriate

 

[Pickman's model]

That's still a guideline.

i never had you down as a wanker's wanker before but thank you for showing your true colours here.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Terrible red-eye and flash caught in window...

 

[Wilf]

That's still a guideline.

That really is one of the weakest and more illogical defences to being proved wrong I've seen on urban.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

That really is one of the weakest and more illogical defences to being proved wrong I've seen on urban.

We could argue for a while about the status of additional guidelines produced by the originators of guidelines. But to call that being "proved wrong" is risible.

 

[twentythreedom]

Terrible red-eye and flash caught in window...


View attachment 65913

Body language of all 3 is a bit

 

[SpookyFrank]

And that would be fine if the sentencing guidelines actually applied. When the state wants to show its power, then the guidelines are meainingless.

Riots: magistrates advised to 'disregard normal sentencing'

"David Cameron said that anyone involved in the riots should expect to go to prison."

Except, of course, for the people who caused them in the first place.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Body language of all 3 is a bit

The girl looks like she has some inkling that the photo she's posing for could well be used to bury the scumbags on either side of her one day. That's why she's the only one whose smile looks genuine.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Body language of all 3 is a bit

tbh it would look completely innocent to me without any context.

 

[Fez909]

The girl looks like she has some inkling that the photo she's posing for could well be used to bury the scumbags on either side of her one day. That's why she's the only one whose smile looks genuine.

At this point she might just have been impressed to be meeting a prince. She said no sex happened on this visit and she requested the photo to show her mam.

 

[twentythreedom]

The girl looks like she has some inkling that the photo she's posing for could well be used to bury the scumbags on either side of her one day. That's why she's the only one whose smile looks genuine.

It was the hands that made me WTF

 

[killer b]

It was the hands that made me WTF

it looks like she's resting her hand on the hip of a man dressed in black, stood right behind her.

 

[Wilf]

We could argue for a while about the status of additional guidelines produced by the originators of guidelines. But to call that being "proved wrong" is risible.

Excellent - 'we could argue about..' is always a good way of indicating the weakness of your position.

(((((originators of guidelines))))

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I accept your apology.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

We could argue for a while about the status of additional guidelines produced by the originators of guidelines. But to call that being "proved wrong" is risible.

It's tantamount to admitting a state of martial law.Guidelines no longer count - just like in martial law, all bets off, all previous rules null and void, any pretence of process suspended.

 

[twentythreedom]

it looks like she's resting her hand on the hip of a man dressed in black, stood right behind her.

Looks like she's about to / just did move Andy's hand somewhere. Andy is cupping his stiffy and Ghislaine is scratching or something

Or not

 

[Wilf]

If you knew nothing about the different people in the photo and just went off the image itself, there certainly looks to be an intimacy of some sort there (probably not a good word given the alleged coercion). She's pressed in against him though you can't tell if she leaned in or he pulled her in. However, one thing that is definite is that he chose to place his hand on the naked middle of a woman he didn't know. Pointless speculation on my part but it certainly doesn't look like a simple 'fan pic', particularly as he is someone with a lifetime's experience in not offering up compromising stances to the camera.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

She isn't pressed in against him.

Think you're stretching, wilf. He's just put his arm around the waist of someone with a short top on. He's not even copping a feel.