Prince Andrew, Duke of York, named in underage 'sex slave' lawsuit

[Badgers]

Inside Teterboro Airport, NYC's private jet airport, where celebrities slip in unnoticed and Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on sex trafficking charges a month before his death

The New Jersey airport is only 12 miles from Manhattan and has amenities like lounges, a gym, a private movie theater, and limo concierge services.

www.businessinsider.com

Just 12 miles from New York City, Teterboro Airport in New Jersey is the city's primary private jet airport.

Teterboro is a general aviation airport, which means its main purpose is to remove smaller, slower aircraft — i.e. private jets — from the regional air traffic and reduce congestion at the commercial airports such as Newark Liberty International Airport, John F. Kennedy International Airport, and LaGuardia Airport.

 

[Kaka Tim]

abusers have often been abused in some way themselves,

but is there any actual evidence for this?

 

[Aladdin]

He's very uncomfortable in that interview.
Notice how he pulls on his ring finger after she asks about him meeting Epstein?
Dodgy as fuck.
And his answers are pathetic.

Epstein obviously got to a lot of people in power. And many must be worried that their relationship will be found out.

 

[Thora]

Anyone have any sympathy with the idea Maxwell might have also been a bit of a victim. Her youth can't have been very normal with her dad, then she found this guy Epstein, who was also bad news but she stayed with him, why? Not to forgive what she did, but just to suggest she might have been damaged goods also.

I’m sure she was “damaged”, but mainly she was prepared to do whatever she needed to in order to maintain the billionaire lifestyle. She wasn’t going to be content living in a small apartment and just being well off.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I’m sure she was “damaged”, but mainly she was prepared to do whatever she needed to in order to maintain the billionaire lifestyle. She wasn’t going to be content living in a small apartment and just being well off.

She didn't do it as a means to an end. She enjoyed it.

 

[LDC]

but is there any actual evidence for this?

If you mean specifically with her, no idea. I was responding to the general point when someone asked about sympathy for her as it was suggested her childhood was abusive.

 

[Kaka Tim]

If you mean specifically with her, no idea. I was responding to the general point when someone asked about sympathy for her as it was suggested her childhood was abusive.

Is there link between being abused and being an abuser?

 

[LDC]

Is there link between being abused and being an abuser?

I can't be arsed to look for papers on it tbh, but that's my understanding from reading bits about this kinda thing and talking to people that work in the field. Not always at all, but reasonably common. But happy to be corrected if I'm talking shit! Also not interested in unpicking her reasons/history, was just a hungover comment on a post that caught my eye.

 

[bluescreen]

If you mean specifically with her, no idea. I was responding to the general point when someone asked about sympathy for her as it was suggested her childhood was abusive.

Anyone have any sympathy with the idea Maxwell might have also been a bit of a victim. Her youth can't have been very normal with her dad, then she found this guy Epstein, who was also bad news but she stayed with him, why? Not to forgive what she did, but just to suggest she might have been damaged goods also.

Sympathy with the idea =/=sympathy for her.

Let her rot.

 

[Thora]

Is there link between being abused and being an abuser?

Most people who are abused in childhood do not become abusers as adults. But, abusers are more likely to have been abused in childhood than non-abusers.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Inside Teterboro Airport, NYC's private jet airport, where celebrities slip in unnoticed and Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on sex trafficking charges a month before his death

The New Jersey airport is only 12 miles from Manhattan and has amenities like lounges, a gym, a private movie theater, and limo concierge services.

www.businessinsider.com

Of course most urbanites will have passed through there numerous times, but it’s name is wrong, it should be Tetboro, but like realtor it’s one of those American words that is just wrong and shall be corrected once we take back the wayward colony.

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course most urbanites will have passed through there numerous times, but it’s name is wrong, it should be Tetboro, but like realtor it’s one of those American words that is just wrong and shall be corrected once we take back the wayward colony.

What would you suggest be done with the other 37 states?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What would you suggest be done with the other 37 states?

Given to Mexico.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Finally it's survivors. How fucking hard was that.

Once a script is written, it will often get copied into the rundowns for later bulletins.

Which means that a script written for, say, a 3pm bulletin will go out as written.

And then in the run-up to the 4pm bulletin, someone might take a look at the copied over script and either re-write it a bit just because they prefer to word something differently or because updates need to be added or because the script needs shortening because the airtime for it is being cut, and of course presenters will often rewrite or reword scripts to suit their preference.

[Fyi: stories generally start out longer when they're higher up the bulletin/news agenda, if they're main headlines stories, and then as other news happens and stories are replaced in the headlines, earlier stories move further down and often get less airtime and so get cropped.]

But then come the 5, and the original script might be in the bulletin from when it was copied over earlier in the day. So there's a risk of reverting to previous versions of a script. Someone might then copy over the version from the 4pm, or they might rewrite the original script, and different journalists will pick up different things...

...such as sensitivities surrounding the words 'accuser' 'victim' and 'survivor' due to some victims of such crimes not wanting to be seen as victims, but as survivors.

Accuser does sound a bit more like a term to be used pre and during trial. And someone probably made that same judgement call, ie following the guilty verdict, the accuser becomes the victim/survivor.

So when you say 'How fucking hard was that', the answer is not hard at all, in isolation, to change a word on a news bulletin script or a website news article, but in the context of being in a busy newsroom, with breaking news, developing stories, it can be quite hard to keep on top of absolutely everything.

I've worked in the control room during live news bulletins and rolling coverage of breaking news and developing stories. You might start a bulletin with a death toll of X killed in a bombing/train crash/earthquake, and then the death toll increases... and the presenter goes to read a recap of the main headlines at the top of the hour or on the half hour, or going into or out of a break, and that original main headline will still be there, and you hope someone in the main newsroom will have updated it with the new death toll of X+23 or whatever, but I'd often catch it and go in and amend the headline recap. But sometimes it slipped by in the chaos.

So in the scheme of things, not hard, but in reality, when you're juggling so many other things in live news broadcasting the occasional inappropriate word that could've and should've been changed in a more timely manner won't have been.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

This is the reply I got from my complaint to the BBC :

Dear Audience Member

Thank you for contacting us regarding our coverage of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.

The interview with Alan Dershowitz after the Ghislaine Maxwell verdict did not meet the BBC’s editorial standards, as Mr Dershowitz was not a suitable person to interview as an impartial analyst, and we did not make the relevant background clear to our audience. We will look into how this happened.

Thank you again for getting in touch and for sharing your feedback.  

BBC Complaints Team

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

BBC looking into how the Dershowitz interview happened. Real head scratcher that one.

My guess would be young freelance producer, eager to book a guest, wants to impress by booking a big name, books him at the last-ish minute without thinking things through in terms of him being an involved party, ie he's also one of the accused in the wider context of Epstein's activities.

Either that or wtf were the editor of the day and/or bulletin editor thinking.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

This is the reply I got from my complaint to the BBC :

Dear Audience Member

Thank you for contacting us regarding our coverage of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.

The interview with Alan Dershowitz after the Ghislaine Maxwell verdict did not meet the BBC’s editorial standards, as Mr Dershowitz was not a suitable person to interview as an impartial analyst, and we did not make the relevant background clear to our audience. We will look into how this happened.

Thank you again for getting in touch and for sharing your feedback.  

BBC Complaints Team

What a coincidence, my reply was word for word the same.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I'm not sure how reliable the Dorset Eye is, but this caught my eye when someone posted it to a group page on facebook that I'm a member of :

The Labour Party must now suspend Peter Mandelson - Dorset Eye

The purpose of the petition is to call on UK Labour Party Leader, Sir Keir Starmer, to SUSPEND Peter Mandelson’s membership of the party while ordering an independent investigation into the extent of Mandelson’s historical involvement in the sex trafficking, paedophilia and sexual blackmail...

dorseteye.com

 

[andysays]

Born into unimaginable wealth. Sounds terrible.
Although there’s definitely an argument that misogyny means she takes the hit whilst all the rich old white privileged men get away with it.

We've yet to see whether all the rich old white privileged men do get away with it (though I fear many of them will) and we might do well to remember that the full case against Epstein never got to court because of the permanent unavailability of the accused.

So I'm not sure that the "argument" you appear to be suggesting that Maxwell is only taking the hit because of misogyny really stands up to a moment's thought, TBH.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

We've yet to see whether all the rich old white privileged men do get away with it (though I fear many of them will) and we might do well to remember that the full case against Epstein never got to court because of the permanent unavailability of the accused.

So I'm not sure that the "argument" you appear to be suggesting that Maxwell is only taking the hit because of misogyny really stands up to a moment's thought, TBH.

If only I hadn’t read yesterday that other women who helped facilitate the abuse might be pursued (no mention of the men at the various orgies) I might be inclined to agree.

 

[Sprocket.]

I wonder if his younger brother Edward, with his interest in theatre had considered doing a royal production of Richard III.
Andrew as The Duke of Clarence, instead of stage props a real dagger and vat of wine could be used?

 

[Wilf]

We've yet to see whether all the rich old white privileged men do get away with it (though I fear many of them will) and we might do well to remember that the full case against Epstein never got to court because of the permanent unavailability of the accused.

So I'm not sure that the "argument" you appear to be suggesting that Maxwell is only taking the hit because of misogyny really stands up to a moment's thought, TBH.

I'm not so much getting in on the point you are debating, but it seems to me more an issue about elite membership than gender per se. Maxwell remained a member of the 'elite' for much of the period since her pater slid off the side of his yacht, but there's been a kind of downward mobility. After he died there were no more jobs to be had in his companies, so she became (shudder) a 'socialite'. After that she became a mixture of socialite and pimp for epstein. Initially that was a further downward move, given his financial crimes, even more so when his rapey ways became known. She's where she is now because she ran out of money and friends - well and because she was a multiple trafficker and abuser (and of course the efforts of victims such as Giuffre).

When it comes to the men, by definition they had power and influence, that seems to have been why epstein nurtured them. Dershovitz is 83 now and might last a few more years given his access to the best health money can buy. Lets just say when he does snuff it, you'd expect more to come out. As we know, he'll throw the kitchen sink at anyone who tries to take him on. He's most certainly still got his power. The Unsweatable is in a weird position in this kind of thinking. When Giuffre first went after him, he looked to have sufficient financial, cultural and political protection to avoid all attacks. But somehow, by his stupidity and arrogance, he seems to have slewed of some of those protections to the point where he's virtually on his own. He's at best a semi detached member of the royal family now and not many politicians are going to step in publicly to support him, though his mother is no doubt ready to pull any remaining frayed strings. Seems like there's almost a time lag in play too. The Met have refused to investigate his rapiness several times, largely because, I imagine, they were shitting themselves at the very thought of it. I'm not convinced they'd do much if they were asked now, but I have a suspicion they'd feel less constained now he's become persona non-grata. Anyway, if there's a point to all this, it's that windsor and maxwell are not only where they are because of their rapiness, it's because of their reckless stupidity in not noticing they'd wandered outside the usual protections of their class.

 

[equationgirl]

Anyone have any sympathy with the idea Maxwell might have also been a bit of a victim. Her youth can't have been very normal with her dad, then she found this guy Epstein, who was also bad news but she stayed with him, why? Not to forgive what she did, but just to suggest she might have been damaged goods also.

Absolutely not. And quite frankly, you should be ashamed of making such a suggestion.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm not so much getting in on the point you are debating, but it seems to me more an issue about elite membership than gender per se. Maxwell remained a member of the 'elite' for much of the period since her pater slid off the side of his yacht, but there's been a kind of downward mobility. After he died there were no more jobs to be had in his companies, so she became (shudder) a 'socialite'. After that she became a mixture of socialite and pimp for epstein. Initially that was a further downward move, given his financial crimes, even more so when his rapey ways became known. She's where she is now because she ran out of money and friends - well and because she was a multiple trafficker and abuser (and of course the efforts of victims such as Giuffre).

When it comes to the men, by definition they had power and influence, that seems to have been why epstein nurtured them. Dershovitz is 83 now and might last a few more years given his access to the best health money can buy. Lets just say when he does snuff it, you'd expect more to come out. As we know, he'll throw the kitchen sink at anyone who tries to take him on. He's most certainly still got his power. The Unsweatable is in a weird position in this kind of thinking. When Giuffre first went after him, he looked to have sufficient financial, cultural and political protection to avoid all attacks. But somehow, by his stupidity and arrogance, he seems to have slewed of some of those protections to the point where he's virtually on his own. He's at best a semi detached member of the royal family now and not many politicians are going to step in publicly to support him, though his mother is no doubt ready to pull any remaining frayed strings. Seems like there's almost a time lag in play too. The Met have refused to investigate his rapiness several times, largely because, I imagine, they were shitting themselves at the very thought of it. I'm not convinced they'd do much if they were asked now, but I have a suspicion they'd feel less constained now he's become persona non-grata. Anyway, if there's a point to all this, it's that windsor and maxwell are not only where they are because of their rapiness, it's because of their reckless stupidity in not noticing they'd wandered outside the usual protections of their class.

She didn't completely run out of friends, she managed to persuade some tech multimillionaire to marry her along the way (iirc, and I think it was his property in New Hampshire that she was arrested at).

 

[TopCat]

Once a script is written, it will often get copied into the rundowns for later bulletins.

Which means that a script written for, say, a 3pm bulletin will go out as written.

And then in the run-up to the 4pm bulletin, someone might take a look at the copied over script and either re-write it a bit just because they prefer to word something differently or because updates need to be added or because the script needs shortening because the airtime for it is being cut, and of course presenters will often rewrite or reword scripts to suit their preference.

[Fyi: stories generally start out longer when they're higher up the bulletin/news agenda, if they're main headlines stories, and then as other news happens and stories are replaced in the headlines, earlier stories move further down and often get less airtime and so get cropped.]

But then come the 5, and the original script might be in the bulletin from when it was copied over earlier in the day. So there's a risk of reverting to previous versions of a script. Someone might then copy over the version from the 4pm, or they might rewrite the original script, and different journalists will pick up different things...

...such as sensitivities surrounding the words 'accuser' 'victim' and 'survivor' due to some victims of such crimes not wanting to be seen as victims, but as survivors.

Accuser does sound a bit more like a term to be used pre and during trial. And someone probably made that same judgement call, ie following the guilty verdict, the accuser becomes the victim/survivor.

So when you say 'How fucking hard was that', the answer is not hard at all, in isolation, to change a word on a news bulletin script or a website news article, but in the context of being in a busy newsroom, with breaking news, developing stories, it can be quite hard to keep on top of absolutely everything.

I've worked in the control room during live news bulletins and rolling coverage of breaking news and developing stories. You might start a bulletin with a death toll of X killed in a bombing/train crash/earthquake, and then the death toll increases... and the presenter goes to read a recap of the main headlines at the top of the hour or on the half hour, or going into or out of a break, and that original main headline will still be there, and you hope someone in the main newsroom will have updated it with the new death toll of X+23 or whatever, but I'd often catch it and go in and amend the headline recap. But sometimes it slipped by in the chaos.

So in the scheme of things, not hard, but in reality, when you're juggling so many other things in live news broadcasting the occasional inappropriate word that could've and should've been changed in a more timely manner won't have been.

A detailed but lame excuse. Any journo knew post guilty they were not accusers.

 

[SpookyFrank]

My guess would be young freelance producer, eager to book a guest, wants to impress by booking a big name, books him at the last-ish minute without thinking things through in terms of him being an involved party, ie he's also one of the accused in the wider context of Epstein's activities.

Either that or wtf were the editor of the day and/or bulletin editor thinking.

Someone had editorial responsibility for that broadcast and that someone should be in the dole queue by now. Getting a known associate of Epstein on to smear his victims right after that verdict? If that's not deliberate apologism for nonces then it's a fuck up of such magnitude that someone needs to realise that they're in the wrong profession and they should get a job more in line with their abilities; like sitting quietly in a corner and trying not to soil themselves.

 

[Saunders]

Anyone have any sympathy with the idea Maxwell might have also been a bit of a victim. Her youth can't have been very normal with her dad, then she found this guy Epstein, who was also bad news but she stayed with him, why? Not to forgive what she did, but just to suggest she might have been damaged goods also.

I don’t know that I’d say ‘sympathy’ and I most definitely wouldn’t say ‘damaged goods’ but I do think her childhood and the relationships she had will have influenced her behaviour and moral code in her adulthood. There will be reasons why she has become the person she has, and inflicted suffering on others, but they’re not excuses.

 

[equationgirl]

weltweit you have a history of making what appears to be really quite stunningly naive posts on more than one occasion, but this is absolutely not the thread to suggest there should be sympathy for a sex trafficker because of their childhood is really beyond the pale.

 

[weltweit]

weltweit you have a history of making what appears to be really quite stunningly naive posts on more than one occasion, but this is absolutely not the thread to suggest there should be sympathy for a sex trafficker because of their childhood is really beyond the pale.

What rot, I asked if people had any sympathy with an idea, not with her. Anyhow it was an idea put to me on NYE and I decided to put it on here. I would dispute your accusation of my "history".

 

[Badgers]