Postal vote issues look like being a big deal

[rasputin]

I was listening to various podcasts this morning and notice there is a lot of discussion about problems with postal votes not being received.

It's obviously now too late for them to be posted, even if they arrive this morning. They will need to be taken to polling stations in person, which kind of defeats the object.

What makes this particularly interesting is there could be legal challenges in constituencies where the final votes are close, which could lead to by elections.

This matters because if the polls are right and the Tories and Lib Dems end up with similar numbers of MPs, this could delay the determination of which party becomes the official opposition. It also means that, if there is an early Tory leadership election (highly likely), any candidate facing a legal challenge and by election may not be able to put their name forward as a leadership candidate. This apparently might affect Kemi Badenoch, whose constituency is one of those facing this problem.

This might run and run, so I thought it was worth a thread.

 

[andysays]

Came across a video yesterday which deals with this issue



I haven't watched the whole thing so can't vouch for the detail.

But from various news reports it appears that the postal vote system has been unable to cope in many places, and so in constituencies where results are close there are likely to be legal challenges from runner up candidates.

One question is whether there will have to be a number of by elections, or whether it's somehow possible to extend the deadline for postal votes to allowed the delayed votes to be submitted.

 

[rasputin]

One question is whether there will have to be a number of by elections, or whether it's somehow possible to extend the deadline for postal votes to allowed the delayed votes to be submitted.

By elections - quite possibly.

Extending the deadline for postal votes - I'm guessing we are well past that, as it would effectively mean delaying the election itself.

 

[Manter]

I didn’t get mine (I got confirmation I had one, and my partner got his). Uk in Denmark Facebook groups suggest loads of us didn’t get them.

It’s fucking embarrassing really- For everything to be broken in a country like UK.

 

[rasputin]

Close election results ‘could be challenged over delayed postal votes’

Experts say cases could go to high court after thousands of voters complain of not receiving ballots

www.theguardian.com

 

[andysays]

By elections - quite possibly.

Extending the deadline for postal votes - I'm guessing we are well past that, as it would effectively mean delaying the election itself.

I guess it depends how many constituencies we're talking about where the result is in question.

Labour are predicted to get such a large majority that it's unlikely to affect which party becomes the government, but if there is genuine uncertainty as to who will be the second largest and therefore the official opposition, it will certainly be an interesting few days while the question of how these issues are resolved is worked out.

 

[weepiper]

Now factor in the timing of this election with the Scottish school holidays (which started last Friday). Anecdotally I know several people who had holidays booked already when it was announced who haven't received their postal votes in time before they left.

 

[rasputin]

I guess it depends how many constituencies we're talking about where the result is in question.

Labour are predicted to get such a large majority that it's unlikely to affect which party becomes the government, but if there is genuine uncertainty as to who will be the second largest and therefore the official opposition, it will certainly be an interesting few days while the question of how these issues are resolved is worked out.

I think it's decided on a constituency by constituency basis, where the result is close, rather than looking at the overall election result.

Yesterday's Guardian article (see link above) gives the example of two cases:

In 1997, there was a re-run in Winchester when the Liberal Democrat Mark Oaten won with a majority of just two votes. After a legal challenge over an administrative bungle that left 54 ballot papers not stamped correctly, the high court ordered a fresh ballot and Oaten was elected with a majority of more than 21,000 seats.

In 2015 Diane Abbott also faced a legal challenge after registration papers did not show up at polling booths, meaning some voters were denied their chance to participate in the election.

However, ... the challenge was unsuccessful as it was deemed that a re-run would not have changed the result because she had a commanding majority.

On a side note, good to see the traditional Grauniad problem with sub editors hasn't gone away. As in "elected with a majority of 21,000 seats."

 

[andysays]

I think it's decided on a constituency by constituency basis, where the result is close, rather than looking at the overall election result.

Yesterday's Guardian article (see link above) gives the example of two cases:



On a side note, good to see the traditional Grauniad problem with sub editors hasn't gone away. As in "elected with a majority of 21,000 seats."

True, but in the past there have been very few challenges and the results in question haven't affected the overall result of the election.

If there are enough constituencies where the results are being challenged, we may be in the unprecedented situation where the overall result might be in question.

 

[Sue]

Now factor in the timing of this election with the Scottish school holidays (which started last Friday). Anecdotally I know several people who had holidays booked already when it was announced who haven't received their postal votes in time before they left.

As I said before, my sister and BIL are among them. Anecdotally, they know a lot of people in the same boat. (School holidays in Glasgow started last Wednesday.)

She actually went to whatever office it is you go to before she left to see if she could pick up replacements in person. Apparently they'd run out for her constituency and were waiting for more from the secure print location. Which she'd hopefully be able to pick up sometime this week. When she's on holiday. Which is why she applied for a postal vote in the first place.

 

[iona]

Orkney school holidays only started today but I imagine a lot of isles residents will've had postal votes to avoid having to come over to the mainland to vote, which is pretty much a full day's round trip from some places.

 

[maomao]

Never would have happened if the vermin hadn't flogged the post office first chance they got. Royal Mail is shit now.

 

[iona]

Never would have happened if the vermin hadn't flogged the post office first chance they got. Royal Mail is shit now.

I cba checking but I wonder if there's also been a significant increase in postal vote applications by people who don't have the required ID to vote in person?

 

[pinkmonkey]

I wonder if there isn’t the extra capacity at Royal Mail to cope with it? We didn’t postal vote but I’m waiting for three very delayed items that are being sent via Royal Mail.

 

[Chilli.s]

I posted my vote weeks ago. Seems like no way to check it was actually counted? Its the usual "eveythings fucked" situation that austerity ushered in

 

[Winot]

I cba checking but I wonder if there's also been a significant increase in postal vote applications by people who don't have the required ID to vote in person?

Very likely I'd have thought.

 

[Manter]

Very likely I'd have thought.

Plus Emigration hs increased, plus rules have changed so more of us are allowed to vote. Though it’s pointless if we are unable to

 

[StoneRoad]

Not much of an issue here, in SW Northumberland.
There was a few days difference in arrival of the voting packs {surnames at opposite ends of alphabet, which could have had something to do with the delay}.
Voted & returned into the postal system within 24hrs of receipt.

 

[Elpenor]

True, but in the past there have been very few challenges and the results in question haven't affected the overall result of the election.

If there are enough constituencies where the results are being challenged, we may be in the unprecedented situation where the overall result might be in question.

Can only recall Rupert Allason in 1997 who went from a GE margin of tens of votes to many thousands majority for the Lib Dem’s

 

[Orang Utan]

I posted mine a couple of weeks ago and it got returned to me later that week. I’d put the papers in the return envelope the wrong way round so my own address was displayed in the plastic window instead of the electoral registry’s. I got anxious that I’d disenfranchised myself cos I managed to tear the envelope while re-opening it to place the return address facing the correct way. I called them and they reassured me that it would still be counted, as long as the inner ballot paper envelope hadn’t been tampered with.
So yes, I did have postal vote issues, but they were entirely self-inflicted

 

[Cerv]

Eurostar passenger carries stranger’s postal ballot from Paris to London

Lawrence Cheung received his ballot card too late to post home, so went to the Gare du Nord to find someone who might be travelling to the UK

www.theguardian.com

man in Paris doesn't get his postal vote till late. hangs around the Eurostar departures at Gare Du Nord till someone agrees to take it to the polling station for him.

I do wonder if he declared that when customs asked if he'd packed his bags himself or been given any sealed packages of drugs to smuggle.

 

[rasputin]

Can only recall Rupert Allason in 1997 who went from a GE margin of tens of votes to many thousands majority for the Lib Dem’s

I'm not sure that's right. You may be remembering this:

In 1997, there was a re-run in Winchester when the Liberal Democrat Mark Oaten won with a majority of just two votes. After a legal challenge over an administrative bungle that left 54 ballot papers not stamped correctly, the high court ordered a fresh ballot and Oaten was elected with a majority of more than 21,000 seats.

But as you mention Rupert Allason, let's take a moment to enjoy the famous legal action he brought against Have I Got News for you in 1998. (He lost.)

The author and former Tory MP Rupert Allason has lost his libel action against the writers of a book based on the satirical television show, Have I Got News For You.

Mr Allason was suing over an entry in the Have I Got 1997 For You diary, which referred to him as a "conniving little shit."