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Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

8den said:
Queenie Glam is the one I'm referring to.

It matters as to whether Maddox was a singularly isolated regrettable incident or part of a wider pattern which I think would be more serious.

But I suspect for 3 of Urbans most pernicious and vicious bullies this thread stopped being about Bowie several pages ago.
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Demonstrate how I have bullied you or been pernicious. Now read the link, its here for you.

remembers Starr fondly:

Proof that it was part of a wider pattern is all there. Then come back and apologise for being a complete and utter bellend.
 
8den said:
It matters as to whether Maddox was a singularly isolated regrettable incident or part of a wider pattern which I think would be more serious.

But I suspect for 3 of Urbans most pernicious and vicious bullies this thread stopped being about Bowie several pages ago.
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bit confused. is this another diversion attempt? Or is this the de-rail prior to the explosion/flounce?

And the whole fuckin thread was never 'about Bowie' - it was always about the wider issues. You have consistently made it about Bowie. You fuckin idiot!
 
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Lucy Fur said:
Demonstrate how I have bullied you or been pernicious. Now read the link, its here for you.

remembers Starr fondly:

Proof that it was part of a wider pattern is all there. Then come back and apologise for being a complete and utter bellend.
Click to expand...

3 CR, LiamO, and PM apologise for the confusion.

I can't read that link on my phone, I'll get back to it after lunch.
 
8den said:
It's not a diversion it's a request for clarification.

A diversion would be expressing disgust and outrage that you let your mate a fucking para continue his pursuit of underage girls.
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None of whom were underage. As I wrote earlier.

Come on now D4. That's three diversions or maybe one diversion and two attempted derail. You've only the explosion/flounce left to play.
 
8den said:
3 CR, LiamO, and PM apologise for the confusion.

I can't read that link on my phone, I'll get back to it after lunch.
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I see you edited your post to take the last sentence out (or maybe to add it).

You managed to access the other one Ok didn't you? the one you thought proved your point? But now you apparently 'can't access' the one which pisses on your picnic? Jaysus!

You are not at lunch, son, you are 'OUT to fuckin lunch'
 
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8den said:
3 CR, LiamO, and PM apologise for the confusion.

I can't read that link on my phone, I'll get back to it after lunch.
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fair do's, I think you will find the evidence you are looking for that this was far from a one off thing. In deed there was a culture of it.
 
8den said:
Queenie Glam is the one I'm referring to.

It matters as to whether Maddox was a singularly isolated regrettable incident or part of a wider pattern which I think would be more serious.

But I suspect for 3 of Urbans most pernicious and vicious bullies this thread stopped being about Bowie several pages ago.
Click to expand...


No it's still about fucking and drugging underage kids , that stuff you were defending as one off . And originally defending on the basis they were mentally up for it, mature enough, different times etc. You had a range of different defences . Now it's a regrettable incident .

Farting in front of the queen is a regrettable incident . Introducing a child to hard drugs and then fucking her while she's under the influence is a despicable incident . Regardless of who does it .

And that child was part of a recognised , well established child sex exploitation scene that was laid on by exploitative perverts for artistic dilettantes . Bowie was fully aware of what it all entailed and threw himself into it . There were no shortage of mature women vying for rock stars affections. This was something available on request after the dilettantes tired of that and wanted something a bit more exotic to whet their jaded appetites . Set up by seedy fixers .

Child sexual exploitation 8den, is what it was . Organised child sexual exploitation. Making that bluntly clear to you is not bullying . You simply shouldn't be attempting to defend it .


Eta

And I'm not bullying you. I gave you ample warning last night it would be highly unwise to go down the route of defending this stuff. And repeatedly urged you to reconsider . You were simply too arrogant to consider that advice in any manner useful .
 
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To be clear. I do not agree with CR's absolutist position on this.

But I also know from my experience of him that, were Bowie not one of 8den's heroes, he would more than likely have adopted the same absolutist position
LiamO said:
2. Some people will cry 'where's your proof'? whilst ignoring the widely available anecdotal evidence from contemporaries. Many of these same people require no such level of proof to wade in and pontificate about those they don't like (Cliff anybody? Jim Davidson?)

3. Posters who ventured that 'things were different back then' have basically been called apologists for noncery on here. I wonder would any of those who wailed the loudest turn up on either of the Bowie RIP threads with a somewhat more nuanced view?
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from the OP
 
LiamO said:
To be clear. I do not agree with CR's absolutist position on this.

But I also know from my experience of him that, were Bowie not one of 8den's heroes, he would more than likely have adopted the same absolutist position


from the OP
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He was a hero of mine..musically wise. Difference is I accept that heroes often have feet of clay . And that it's probably a lot wiser to separate the man from the music . And I'm not going to make a cunt of myself defending child sexual exploitation.

My take on it is Bowie asked a fixer for a virgin, and Maddox was delivered for his gratification. He'd probably tried everything else and wanted more. That was how that sene was.

And like page he was a satanist and a follower of Crowley, with the dictum " do ast thou wilt " ,so all morality was clean out the window and pure self gratification was the name of the game .
 
bimble said:
We haven't really come very far since the panic and confusion that followed the publication of Lolita in the 50s, have we.
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Would take a brave publisher to publish that now.

Not sure that's progress.

i couldn't even imagine Sting bringing out 'Don't stand so close to me' these days. It's a brilliant song but the redtops would be straight on the case accusing him of singing out his fantasies.
 
LiamO said:
Would take a brave publisher to publish that now.

Not sure that's progress.
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He was turned down by all the decent publishers and signed up with a trashy French porn-merchant in the end.
Good book though.

("British Customs officers were then instructed by a panicked HO to seize all copies entering the United Kingdom. In December 1956, France followed suit, ..)
 
Casually Red said:
He was a hero of mine..musically wise. Difference is I accept that heroes often have feet of clay . And that it's probably a lot wiser to separate the man from the music . And I'm not going to make a cunt of myself defending child sexual exploitation.

My take on it is Bowie asked a fixer for a virgin, and Maddox was delivered for his gratification. He'd probably tried everything else and wanted more. That was how that sene was.

And like page he was a satanist and a follower of Crowley, with the dictum " do ast thou wilt " ,so all morality was clean out the window and pure self gratification was the name of the game .
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Without getting too of track, Crowley was not a Satanist, and morality most certainly does not go out the window with the dictum of the Thelemist law of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." as you were.
 
there was a film version (not kubrik) from 1997 so its hardly explosively transgressive today. The worst part is having 'lolita' in my search history to check the films date *delete cookies*
 
Luc Bessons "Leon" has overtones, and in the original script they became lovers, although this was rewritten in the final version.
 
I always thought Bowie was a tedious twat so easy for me to condemn but, despite the role of Roy Harper's Stormcock as a soundscape throughout my entire adult life, I dropped it pretty damn quick on recognition of noncery. I can generally separate unpleasant characters from artistic output...but sex with underage children, with all the horrible allusions to power abuse, cowardly men seeking some sort of validation, affirmation, adoration...completely poisons past and future output from these craven swine. I could never listen to a single Peel show without the term paedophile racketing around my head and the likes of Craig Charles, however amusing my offspring found Red Dwarf, became verboten because I am unable to dismiss vile attitudes towards powerless minors. As for 'it was different then ' this is utter, utter shite - it was never different - abuse of children, regardless of physical sexual precocity is usually an attitude of despicable, objectifying scum who regard the bodies of minors as a personal playground. This attitude trumps all artistic virtue and stains it irrevocably.
 
Are there any interviews with the men who took advantage of the Baby Groupies? The only thing I can recall seeing was Bingenheimer excusing himself of any responsibility
 
DaveCinzano said:
Can you clarify what, in the context of this thread, you mean?
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That book, about a love affair / sex relationship between a grown up man and a young girl, remains controversial and confusing after all these years because it is not (for many people, including me) enough to just shout rapist at Nabakov and call the relationship depicted 'child abuse plain and simple' end of story. I mean you can if you want to of course.
(not a great answer i know, bit rushed)
 
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