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Yes, but such a post-GE reunification of the right looks highly unlikely as of now; a 'bloodbath' of splitting, recrimination and blame looks favourite tbh
Disagree.

The right, and it's a far-right, has got the numbers (almost) already.

Disillusionment with Labour will be fast and hard.

Climate change, and the costs of dealing with it, will be the wedge issue. The can has been kicked down the road for decades. We're out of road. The shit is hitting the fan and it's going to cost unprecedented amounts to just manage it, never mind tackle it. Denialism and defeatism will fuel the backlash against having to pay for it. The far-right will run with this.
 
Disagree.

The right, and it's a far-right, has got the numbers (almost) already.

Disillusionment with Labour will be fast and hard.

Climate change, and the costs of dealing with it, will be the wedge issue. The can has been kicked down the road for decades. We're out of road. The shit is hitting the fan and it's going to cost unprecedented amounts to just manage it, never mind tackle it. Denialism and defeatism will fuel the backlash against having to pay for it. The far-right will run with this.

That, and war. 2029 is not going to be fun.
 
Disagree.

The right, and it's a far-right, has got the numbers (almost) already.

Disillusionment with Labour will be fast and hard.

Climate change, and the costs of dealing with it, will be the wedge issue. The can has been kicked down the road for decades. We're out of road. The shit is hitting the fan and it's going to cost unprecedented amounts to just manage it, never mind tackle it. Denialism and defeatism will fuel the backlash against having to pay for it. The far-right will run with this.
And petrostates don’t mind chucking a bob or two at keeping the status quo (hence Saudi money behind Musk’s Twitter takeover, assorted Russian interference etc). The changes required to limit climate change are even less palatable to them and they’ll fight hard to keep oil and gas money coming in.
 
Disagree.

The right, and it's a far-right, has got the numbers (almost) already.

Disillusionment with Labour will be fast and hard.

Climate change, and the costs of dealing with it, will be the wedge issue. The can has been kicked down the road for decades. We're out of road. The shit is hitting the fan and it's going to cost unprecedented amounts to just manage it, never mind tackle it. Denialism and defeatism will fuel the backlash against having to pay for it. The far-right will run with this.
You'd think so, but then successive neoliberal government has failed to take decisive action.
 
That Labour won't start prioritising climate change over economic growth. Even less,rolling back the economic system that causes the problem.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I really, really, really don’t see Starmer doing anything at all about climate change.

Nobody will until it’s too late. Not because they’re stupid or evil, but because the structures of neoliberalism, of the state that supports it, or the financial interests that drive it, will prevent anything meaningful being done before material circumstances make the current economy literally impossible.

I don’t see any action before the suffering in The “West” getting substantially worse. Until then, for the interests of capital, large-scale change is literally unthinkable.

Vanessa Machado de Oliveira writes in Hospicing Modernity that “There’s a popular saying in Brazil that in a flood situation, it is only when the water reaches people’s hips that it becomes possible for them to swim.” I think she’s right (in that).

Eventually those with the power to act will reach a point where the choice is made for them and “business as usual” becomes intolerable. Until then, the Guardian and others will be arguing that the devestment movement, like Fossil Free Books, are “misguided” and “only serving to defund literary festivals” and that “Baillie Gifford only invest 2% of their clients’ money in fossil fuels”. Despite the stark truth that unless we make it too difficult for companies like Baillie Gifford to invest anything at all in fossil fuels, we’ve got no chance of stopping things getting worse, never mind working towards making things better.

So it’ll continue to be a Common Sense narrative of “annoying hippies” on the one hand and “economic probity” on the other until the water is chest height.
 

Hard disagree with DLR’s post above.

More than what Labour has set out in its manifesto could be done. But it’s hardly a commitment to “do nothing at all about climate change”. It’s the maximum that Labour can commit to within a cautious fiscal envelope, and without upsetting vested energy interests, including unions, too much.

Even this will be far too much for a radical right wing populist climate denialist opposition, which is why Chilango’s prognostications for 2029 feel bang on.
 
That Labour won't start prioritising climate change over economic growth. Even less,rolling back the economic system that causes the problem.
Of course.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I really, really, really don’t see Starmer doing anything at all about climate change.

Nobody will until it’s too late. Not because they’re stupid or evil, but because the structures of neoliberalism, of the state that supports it, or the financial interests that drive it, will prevent anything meaningful being done before material circumstances make the current economy literally impossible.

I don’t see any action before the suffering in The “West” getting substantially worse. Until then, for the interests of capital, large-scale change is literally unthinkable.

Vanessa Machado de Oliveira writes in Hospicing Modernity that “There’s a popular saying in Brazil that in a flood situation, it is only when the water reaches people’s hips that it becomes possible for them to swim.” I think she’s right (in that).

Eventually those with the power to act will reach a point where the choice is made for them and “business as usual” becomes intolerable. Until then, the Guardian and others will be arguing that the devestment movement, like Fossil Free Books, are “misguided” and “only serving to defund literary festivals” and that “Baillie Gifford only invest 2% of their clients’ money in fossil fuels”. Despite the stark truth that unless we make it too difficult for companies like Baillie Gifford to invest anything at all in fossil fuels, we’ve got no chance of stopping things getting worse, never mind working towards making things better.

So it’ll continue to be a Common Sense narrative of “annoying hippies” on the one hand and “economic probity” on the other until the water is chest height.
How high's the water Danny?
 
Yeah, I agree with you here. I really, really, really don’t see Starmer doing anything at all about climate change.

Nobody will until it’s too late. Not because they’re stupid or evil, but because the structures of neoliberalism, of the state that supports it, or the financial interests that drive it, will prevent anything meaningful being done before material circumstances make the current economy literally impossible.

I don’t see any action before the suffering in The “West” getting substantially worse. Until then, for the interests of capital, large-scale change is literally unthinkable.

Vanessa Machado de Oliveira writes in Hospicing Modernity that “There’s a popular saying in Brazil that in a flood situation, it is only when the water reaches people’s hips that it becomes possible for them to swim.” I think she’s right (in that).

Eventually those with the power to act will reach a point where the choice is made for them and “business as usual” becomes intolerable. Until then, the Guardian and others will be arguing that the devestment movement, like Fossil Free Books, are “misguided” and “only serving to defund literary festivals” and that “Baillie Gifford only invest 2% of their clients’ money in fossil fuels”. Despite the stark truth that unless we make it too difficult for companies like Baillie Gifford to invest anything at all in fossil fuels, we’ve got no chance of stopping things getting worse, never mind working towards making things better.

So it’ll continue to be a Common Sense narrative of “annoying hippies” on the one hand and “economic probity” on the other until the water is chest height.
To be fair to Starmer I think the Labour government will take some action on climate change, just as the Tories did. I think we'll see substantial progress towards decarbonising the electricity system, which is already happening at quite a pace, for instance. It just won't be adequate action commensurate with the scale of the challenge. A lot of that is down to the structural forces you mention, but I think another factor is simply the scientific / technical illiteracy of the political class as a whole, including the media, when it comes to climate change and the transition.
 
It’s the maximum that Labour can commit to within a cautious fiscal envelope, and without upsetting vested energy interests, including unions, too much.
This is exactly what my post means. It’s just that we disagree on how much use “the maximum that can be done without upsetting vested interests” is. My view is that it’s no use at all at this stage. 30 years ago? Well, maybe. But we’re where we are now.
 
This is exactly what my post means. It’s just that we disagree on how much use “the maximum that can be done without upsetting vested interests” is. My view is that it’s no use at all at this stage. 30 years ago? Well, maybe. But we’re where we are now.

It’s not nothing, though. Get the transition started, and maybe it can accelerate. To be fair to previous administrations, it’s only under Truss and Sunak that the UK government has looked like backsliding on climate commitments. And the real fights have to be won at COP, not nationally.
 
The correct answer was "3 feet high and rising".

I'm wasted on you lot, wasted :(
Sorry. Was lost deep in an extended metaphor!

I’m just of the opinion that

a) it is possible with the technology we have now to arrest the climate catastrophe. Not fix, but stop it getting worse.

but

b) the political will to do enough towards the above is not there.

and

c) won’t be there until the catastrophe is bad enough to harm the pockets of the vested interests (more than taking sufficient action would).

In other words, in the meantime all that will be done is “the maximum that [governments] can commit to within a cautious fiscal envelope, and without upsetting vested energy interests, including unions, too much”. Which is not enough. Not at this stage.
 
What would have been your prediction in 2015 for when new ICE car sales would stop? Personally, I think the global progress on vehicle electrification has been pretty good.
With respect Silas, you are quite right and completely wrong at the same time. Some of the technological advances have been impressive. Eg the rapid scaling up of solar. In this country, decarbonisation of electricity has been world leading (albeit on the broken backs of mining communities).

But none of it has made much difference. We haven't even plateaued, globally, in terms of emissions. It's increasingly obvious that a technocratic approach that views this as purely about technological substitution will not work. It's about resource allocation and use. It's about a different economic model.

But even if you are operating under the flawed ecomodernist, green growth paradigm, the scale of what needs to happen to deliver net zero is enormous. It's a whole society, generational mission. The timescales are tight. It's too late to fuck around the way the next government will.
 
Some very strange figures there. Reform on 7 is ridiculous; we all know that FPtP punishes smaller parties because the votes are concentrated in very particular parts of the country.
It's the SNP tally that looks particularly perplexing
 
I’d prefer to be wrong. Convince me.
Sadly, no. The real addiction isn't to carbon, its to capital. When you own all the lifeboats, you always think you can carry on doing the same, way beyond the tipping point. They won't stop because there's no short term rationale in stopping.
 
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