danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
What do we want?
Social democratic adaptations to neoliberalism!
When do we want it?
As soon as the growth of post neo-classical endogenous growth theory permits!
Political Compass 2015
- Thread starter Argonia
- Start date
Social democratic adaptations to neoliberalism!
When do we want it?
As soon as the growth of post neo-classical endogenous growth theory permits!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Almost certainly not. But whether, or not, 'we' want one is another matter.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
I did something like this before the last euro elections. since i didn't tick / untick whatever it was to say UK parties, I ended up with a fairly close match with the catalan socialist party...
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I don't actually believe this - they have some reasonably social democratic policies - eg. the mansion tax. It doesn't go especially far, but it's a start.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It's about the trend of their programme as a whole, though. Anyone can pick one or two instances from a big picture without them being representative of it.
Like, "there's no racism in America because the president is African American", Or "there's no class bias in government because John Prescott went to a state comp" and so on.
The mansion tax will frankly fix fuck all.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Lol.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Working to get the party leadership into power is the same as working to put their programme into effect.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
there's every chance that even a small grouping of socialists in Parliament could work with others to shift that programme significantly to the left, if Labour falls short of a working majority
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What a disgusting currently.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Why is it "disgusting" - I think this describes where it stands under Miliband right now [not necessarily how I'd describe the politics of the ultra-Blairites, or the Socialist Campaign Group [such as it is])
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Because you know damn well that currently extends pretty much forever. It's at best a fantastical currently, at worst a downright dishonest currently.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
not necessarily, the Progress wing are pretty much advocates of the neoliberal destruction of the social democratic legacy, a quite different prospect.
Yes, go start one.
What would you call significantly? Where has this strategy worked before?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Significantly - abandoning year-on-year cuts to the current account deficit, commitment to Trident replacement, stopping cuts to welfare. I'm not saying this will happen [will also depend on the leaderships of the Nats], but there's some scope for it at least.
So has it ever worked anywhere before? Perhaps you should join the "Nats" and try to influence their leadership.
if the left/right axis is based on collectivism vs private ownership then yes they are, that that collectivism means an authoritarian state is the reason for the other axis. I can't believe I'm defending political fucking compass.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
so turning the world into a gigantic labour camp would be "left wing"?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Surely "social democratic adaptations to neoliberalism" transgress most of the principles of social democracy? Such "adaptations" being, in fact, capitulation to neoliberalism, dressed up so that it can be sold as something it isn't.
it hasn't been beyond economically left but very authoritarian states before has it?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I see that you're still kidding yourself.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Fantasy. You don't even know your own party - or more accurately you do, but can't face the truth, what it would mean for a good Communist like you.
your toy town politics is showing again, you think right wing means nasty, like Tories, Hitler and Darth Vadar and left wing means nice like kittens and hippies and the Labour party and you. the truth is a little more complex, especially in terms of economic policies (you, hippies and the Labour Party are all economically to the right of Darth Vadar)
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I think Miliband genuinely wants to protect what's left of the social democratic legacy, but believes it's impossible to do anything that fundamentally challenges the financial markets, so ends up making adaptations. Someone like Milburn actively wants to break up the welfare state/public services etc to run them along market lines.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
No, I'm fully aware of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot thank you very much
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Assuming my scenario of the nats and labour left pulling the programme to the left fails - (especially if it doesn't even get the chance owing to Labour failing to be the largest party) - there will be major battles ahead and the question of a left break from the party will be posed.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
...but I don't see how state control of production to fight for global imperial domination and racial supremacy can be classified as "left wing" - it's a daft categorisation.
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