brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
If they were aware that they were relying on a vermin/kipper coalition of support, yes.
Plaid leftie Leanne Wood gets most nominations for leadership.
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
- Start date
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
There's never been any doubt that Labour will govern, no one else has got the numbers and PC know that (or if they don't they're even bigger idiots than they appear). This was a tactic to put pressure on Labour in order to get a better deal, but it's completely backfired - they've actually "propped up" Labour more by this tactic.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Exactly. A lose, lose for Plaid.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
it always has, First Minister isn't a presidential post, if Wood had won the vote then she would be in charge of forming a government.Because when you've only got 1/5 of the seats and are reliant on two parties that you are (in theory) politically opposed to your are either going have to get into bed with scum or your government will fall within weeks.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
that all those opposed to labour would vote against their leader carrying on for another few years?
it might be inevitable but honestly can't see why they should prop up labour
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
this is where i'm going wrong then clearly!
Because when you've only got 1/5 of the seats and are reliant on two parties that you are (in theory) politically opposed to your are either going have to get into bed with scum or your government will fall within weeks.
Plumdaff
joy in people
No-one saying they have to prop up Labour.
They do have to face reality though; it's either a Labour minority administration ( so not propped up by anyone) or Plaid propped up by the Tories, UKIP and Lib Dems. Do you think any Plaid voters voted wanting that?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
'We put Leanne Wood's name up - why wouldn't we?'
Guess what, this, what's happening right now, is why you wouldn't. You know no labour person will vote for her, therefore you've got 29 against right away. So you need basically everyone else voting for her for her to win. ie you need UKIP and the Tories (and that libdem - fucking hell, a libdem stopped them
).
Guess what, this, what's happening right now, is why you wouldn't. You know no labour person will vote for her, therefore you've got 29 against right away. So you need basically everyone else voting for her for her to win. ie you need UKIP and the Tories (and that libdem - fucking hell, a libdem stopped them
).
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Really? No.1? Ahead of UKIP and the Tories?
Hmmm. Never trust a nationalist, it seems.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep. Of course they are. Who are they fighting for votes/seats with the most?
Labour.
Look at Scotland.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Electoral enemy, sure. But Plaid have a history of describing themselves as socialist. What exactly was Wood planning to do if she had won? Form a govt with two r/w parties who stand for everything she says she doesn't?
And yes, comparing with Scotland, I could see a day when the SNP would go into govt with the Tories to keep Labour out. As I said, don't trust a nationalist.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
The fact that they informed the Tories/UKIP of their intentions clearly shows intention. They could have run Wood as a candidate without giving prior notice to the Tories/UKIP (and having someone in wings ready to make a much needed trip to the loo).'We put Leanne Wood's name up - why wouldn't we?'
Guess what, this, what's happening right now, is why you wouldn't. You know no labour person will vote for her, therefore you've got 29 against right away. So you need basically everyone else voting for her for her to win. ie you need UKIP and the Tories (and that libdem - fucking hell, a libdem stopped them
I wonder to what extent this shows Hamilton's experience, wanker that he is he's clearly got some knowledge of the system and how to game it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I suspect Plaid had intention of forming an administration, and knew they wouldn't have to.
If they show willing to prop Labour up then people may as well vote Labour.
That's a lesson the LibDems have learnt the hard way.
Ganging up to try and bring down an administration is a very different beast to to ganging up to form one.
I think people get that.
...but we'll see.
I'm not saying I think it was the right move. Just that I can see the logic in it.
And, yeah, never trust a nationalist.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Isn't this exactly the kind of thing many people hate from politicians. So they weren't trying to do anything constructive at all, just trying to fuck things up so that nobody can govern. Either that or they had a genuine intention to govern as 'everyone but Labour' alongside a bunch of people most Plaid voters will hate far more than they hate Labour? That's lose-lose, particularly the way it has given both UKIP and the Tories a way to show that their presence matters.
They very nearly did get the chance to try to form an administration - one libdem stopped it happening if I'm reading that right.
I don't know what the electoral mechanics of this are, but if they were to force another election, I wouldn't fancy Leanne Wood's chances of holding onto that seat.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I don't disagree with that. But a large part of the SNP's current dominance is down to wining over former Labour voters by portraying themselves as more left wing. I don't see how this move by PC does the equivalent in Wales, surely it does the opposite. They've handed Labour a gold plated opportunity to portray them as in bed with Tories and UKIP.
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Of course their line (we proposed Wood whatever happens isn't down to us) means that when the Assembly reopens they should put Wood forward again, even if that does result in new elections.
Plumdaff
joy in people
Leanne Wood was generally well thought of by left of centre voters of all stripes. Yet another reason why this is so wrong headed.
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
Madness by Plaid here. Labour are holding all the cards. It's clear that a Labour minority gvmt is the only credible administration. PC are right that Labour have a fairly weak hand here, but they've just gone all in with even less!
Labour can't really lose now. PC look like troublemakers, tory collaborators and timewasters. There's no pressure on Labour at all to sort any of this out as the electorate will no doubt take a very dim view of all this if another election is called. Plaid Cymru can only make an embarrassing climbdown, or bring about a majority Labour Government in 28 days time.
Labour can't really lose now. PC look like troublemakers, tory collaborators and timewasters. There's no pressure on Labour at all to sort any of this out as the electorate will no doubt take a very dim view of all this if another election is called. Plaid Cymru can only make an embarrassing climbdown, or bring about a majority Labour Government in 28 days time.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
It pretty much sums up what Plaid is about - themselves.
Their main political target is Labour, its where they want to skim their votes from and copy the Scottish experience to become the main party of Wales. Whilst I've found Leanne Woods generally decent, she's never really had to walk the walk. The truth is that Plaid has a deep seam of opportunist scumbags who will say any old shite or work with anyone to get their arses in the seats. Neil McEvoy is a perfect example of slime in motion. Prior examples can be found in the likes of Mohammed Islam who can quite happily jump from Plaid to UKIP. None of them have any real standards or beliefs beyond their own pockets
Their main political target is Labour, its where they want to skim their votes from and copy the Scottish experience to become the main party of Wales. Whilst I've found Leanne Woods generally decent, she's never really had to walk the walk. The truth is that Plaid has a deep seam of opportunist scumbags who will say any old shite or work with anyone to get their arses in the seats. Neil McEvoy is a perfect example of slime in motion. Prior examples can be found in the likes of Mohammed Islam who can quite happily jump from Plaid to UKIP. None of them have any real standards or beliefs beyond their own pockets
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
plaid are more left wing than labour and they have been winning people over, nowhere near enough obviously
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
agree with most of that but honestly believe Leanne could walk the walk and isn't in it to line their pockets
editor
hiraethified
Me too. I find her a very credible person.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And many of those potential PC voters are going to run from them now. Every time PC say that they are to the left of Labour, Labour can throw this agreement they made with UKIP back in their faces
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