Plaid leftie Leanne Wood gets most nominations for leadership.

[killer b]

But their first act in the new assembly is to work with them.

 

[stethoscope]

If its some sort of 'tactic' to force more negotiation with Labour as some seem to be suggesting, it seems a risky one.

 

[killer b]

we won't work with them, honest. Except now. Just this time.

 

[Plumdaff]

this basically
Plaid are not in bed with tories and kippers and won't work with them

If the Lib Dem had voted with Plaid, Wood would have been first minister propped up by the Blue, Purple and Yellow Scum. You don't think they'd have wanted something out of that arrangement? As it is, the fucking Lib Dem comes out of this better.

It's politicking of the worst, petty kind. Terrible move from Plaid.

 

[ddraig]

how is it down to them?

 

[Pickman's model]

this basically
Plaid are not in bed with tories and kippers and won't work with them

And you say this mere hours after they've worked together

 

[killer b]

how is it down to them?

Either
a) they did a deal with UKIP and the vermin, or
b) allowed themselves to be used by UKIP and the vermin.

Those are your options. Cyncism or wide-eyed naivety. Neither look that good.

 

[teqniq]

This makes things as clear as mud

Did Plaid Cymru ask Ukip and the Tories to help stitch up Labour?

 

[killer b]

If its some sort of 'tactic' to force more negotiation with Labour as some seem to be suggesting, it seems a risky one.

It probably is as far as Plaid are concerned - I doubt the other parties involved are doing it for the same reason though.

 

[stethoscope]

This makes things as clear as mud

Did Plaid Cymru ask Ukip and the Tories to help stitch up Labour?

Yeah, I just saw that!

 

[Plumdaff]

how is it down to them?

At the very least they have allowed themselves to be used to legitimise UKIP as a force within the assembly. Are you saying Plaid are so naive that they didn't know exactly what UKIP and the Tories would do, largely for shits and giggles, in this scenario?

 

[stethoscope]

One of the Beeb Wales journo's has this on twitter, make of it what you will.

 

[brogdale]

Strange days indeed when you can find some integrity in the words of a (the)Lib Dem.

“I was not re-elected to support a “a ragtag coalition made up of Ukip assembly members who at the moment can’t even agree with each other,”

Dark day for Plaid/Wood.

 

[teqniq]

Depressing really, I thought Wood had more integrity than this.

 

[redsquirrel]

Absolutely stupid move by Plaid, even if it had come off what were they going to do - try to form a coalition with Labour (yeah good luck with that), form an (utterly unstable) coalition with UKIP/Tories or govern as a minority party when they have a mere fifth of the seats?

And what are they going to do when parliament is recalled? Try and get Wood elected as first minister again (possibly leading to a new set of elections, I think Labour would be overjoyed to campaign on that basis) or fold and look like a bunch of unprincipled idiots. By all means put pressure on Labour but this is no way to do it.

 

[ddraig]

Either
a) they did a deal with UKIP and the vermin, or
b) allowed themselves to be used by UKIP and the vermin.

Those are your options. Cyncism or wide-eyed naivety. Neither look that good.

what were they meant to do then? vote for a labour leader?
same to you pickers

 

[Plumdaff]

The only generous spin I can give it is that they're pushing for some concession from Labour and did this to press the issue. They can then claim to have had some movement from Labour when they back down.

But the way to do that is to talk up Plaid policies and openly state they'll back Labour if they get some agreement some of these issues. That'd be honest and likely popular, I'd probably be up for some of the better Plaid policies from the Assembly Government. But no, they've either cynically been used or have cynically used UKIP and Tories to create an impasse.

 

[ddraig]

At the very least they have allowed themselves to be used to legitimise UKIP as a force within the assembly. Are you saying Plaid are so naive that they didn't know exactly what UKIP and the Tories would do, largely for shits and giggles, in this scenario?

what should plaid have done then? just let Carwyn carry on?
what options do you think they had
i do think that the kippers and tories also wanted to give Carwyn a bloody nose
unfortunate but why is it not just 29 people voting against 29 people?
*clearly they are all politicians playing games*

 

[ddraig]

The only thing generous spin I can give it is that they're pushing for some concession from Labour and did this to press the issue. They can then claim to have had some movement from Labour when they back down.

But the way to do that is to talk up Plaid policies and openly state they'll back Labour if they get some agreement some of these issues. That'd be honest and likely popular, I'd probably be up for some of the better Plaid policies from the Assembly Government. But no, they've either cynically been used or have cynically used UKIP and Tories to create an impasse.

did what? they voted for their own candidate
is that bad?
Leanne would be an ace first minister fwiw

 

[Plumdaff]

did what? they voted for their own candidate
is that bad?
Leanne would be an ace first minister fwiw

You asked me what they should have done. I've told you what I think they should have done.

They didn't get enough votes, ddraig, it was bullshit posturing to nominate Wood with only a fifth of the vote. They should have got on with the business of pressuring a minority Labour administration.

I happen(?ed) to have a lot of time for Leanne but I think Plaid's campaign round here was despicable and I don't think any leader propped up by the Tories and UKIP would be 'ace', I think it would be a tragic shambles for Wales.

 

[teqniq]

Plumdaff Where is 'round here? And why was it despicable?

 

[ddraig]

sorry if missing it but looks like you are saying they should prop labour up??

what has the campaign round here got to do with Leanne? agree it was despicable and not a good look
why would they have to be propped up by tories and ukip? can't they be leader and do what you say about pressurising labour without making concessions?

it's a tragic shambles already with 7 fuckin kipper AM's, this is what kind of shit happens in these situations, it is going to be a nightmare, already is

 

[brogdale]

sorry if missing it but looks like you are saying they should prop labour up??

what has the campaign round here got to do with Leanne? agree it was despicable and not a good look
why would they have to be propped up by tories and ukip? can't they be leader and do what you say about pressurising labour without making concessions?

it's a tragic shambles already with 7 fuckin kipper AM's, this is what kind of shit happens in these situations, it is going to be a nightmare, already is

You're saying that PC could not have decided to abstain?

 

[redsquirrel]

sorry if missing it but looks like you are saying they should prop labour up??

Nobody has said that

why would they have to be propped up by tories and ukip? can't they be leader and do what you say about pressurising labour without making concessions?

How else would they have governed? Labour are hardly likely to help them out under these circumstances are they.

 

[Plumdaff]

Plumdaff Where is 'round here? And why was it despicable?

Cardiff West. Mark Drakesford is the AM. Neil McEvoy, who has form anyway for his views on women's services, sent around leaflet after leaflet slagging off the NHS and just going for Drakesford personally rather than talking about Plaid policies. I work for the NHS, and yes there's problems, but I don't expect a supposed left of centre candidate to collude with the worst Tory bullshit about how terrible it is, with some mealy mouthed crap about not slagging off the workers, when you blatantly are. Some of Plaid's stuff on health was troublesome too.

 

[ddraig]

You're saying that PC could not have decided to abstain?

and let labour have it by default??

 

[teqniq]

Cardiff West. Mark Drakesford is the AM. Neil McEvoy, who has form anyway for his views on women's services, sent around leaflet after leaflet slagging off the NHS and just going for Drakesford personally rather than talking about Plaid policies. I work for the NHS, and yes there's problems, but I don't expect a supposed left of centre candidate to collude with the worst Tory bullshit about how terrible it is, with some mealy mouthed crap about not slagging off the workers, when you blatantly are. Some of Plaid's stuff on health was troublesome too.

I was unaware of this, I should have paid more attention

 

[ddraig]

Nobody has said that

How else would they have governed? Labour are hardly likely to help them out under these circumstances are they.

right, so being the leader means governing now?
they are going to have a lot of issues getting anything through anyway so why not have your leader as leader of the assembly.
i clearly don't understand

 

[Plumdaff]

and let labour have it by default??

This wasn't an even contest. The only party capable of forming a government and having a leader alone was Labour. Plaid could only do it if they relied on Tories, UKIP and Lib Dem voting for them. For reasons unknown, they went for the latter. They couldn't do it by themselves.

 

[ddraig]

I was unaware of this, I should have paid more attention

there have been a fair few things over the years, it needs sorting out