Plaid leftie Leanne Wood gets most nominations for leadership.

[ddraig]

yeah, sadly

 

[redsquirrel]

And Wood gone. PC moving rightwards

 

[butchersapron]

Weird - have all the lefties joined labour?

 

[teqniq]

Surely you jest. Welsh Labour is a joke.

 

[butchersapron]

Well where they all gone?

 

[chilango]

Well where they all gone?

England?

 

[butchersapron]

Pembroke?

 

[skyscraper101]

Holyhead

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I'm very sad Leanne lost. She has charisma and the common touch. It's also important she is female, and that she dragged a party with a strong culturally conservative contingent into the 21st Century.

I think frustration with not making gains is a bit short sighted in the context of the challenge Corbyn has raised to PC (as with GPEW).

Her attempt to improve the vote among English speakers and in South Wales was far-sighted.

Nonetheless, Price is capable. Though not as radical I don't see him as a right winger (hope I aint proved wrong) He did try and impeach Blair for war crimes when few elsewhere seemed as bothered. But overall, I fear he will just be seen as another white bloke in a suit.

In her role, Leanne was one of the most important female socialist and UK politician of her generation.

 

[redsquirrel]

What a laughable last line - she isn't a socialist (or at least the party she has led for the last six years has not advocated any form of socialism) and to call her important is deluded, she might have a decent profile in Wales but I suspect that the overwhelming majority of the UK would not recognise her.

Even on P&P there was no mention of the PC leadership election between my post on this thread on Jun 20 and yesterday.

Price is advocating a cut to income tax BTW

 

[ddraig]

Leanne is a socialist, a solid one

 

[ddraig]

and for anyone who hasn't seen this

 

[chilango]

Whilst Wood might be (and I've no reason to doubt this) a "decent socialist" as an individual. The party she led isn't. Sure, it's left-ish leaning in parts. But it bears no resemblance to the leftist-separatist parties you find on the continent.

Does that matter? I doubt it.

 

[teqniq]

.

 

[redsquirrel]

Leanne is a socialist, a solid one

How so?

She's headed a party that is, at most, mildly social democratic for six years. She's certainly not advocated workers control of the means of production as PC policy. She might personally favour such (though I've never actually seen any evidence of this) but as the leader of PC she's advocated for some minor social democratic policies.

Moreover, the party she's led has more than it's fair share of wankers, see Plumduffs posts on this thread, ap Iorwerth arguing for the possibility of a coalition with the Tories or it willingness to stand berks that want to undermine the NHS as councillors. She's also argued that a independent Wales should join the EU (and therefore necessarily the Euro) a pretty strange position for a socialist (I've seen socialist arguments against leaving the EU but I've not seen any for joining it).

 

[ddraig]

How so?

She's headed a party that is, at most, mildly social democratic for six years. She's certainly not advocated workers control of the means of production as PC policy. She might personally favour such (though I've never actually seen any evidence of this) but as the leader of PC she's advocated for some minor social democratic policies.

Moreover, the party she's led has more than it's fair share of wankers, see Plumduffs posts on this thread, ap Iorwerth arguing for the possibility of a coalition with the Tories or it willingness to stand berks that want to undermine the NHS as councillors. She's also argued that a independent Wales should join the EU (and therefore necessarily the Euro) a pretty strange position for a socialist (I've seen socialist arguments against leaving the EU but I've not seen any for joining it).

You're going to blame her for the rest of the party??
I've met them and seen them turn out for causes on their own time and know for fact they mean what they say, stick to their beliefs despite opposition from inside and outside the party and the amount of grief they get.
You made the claim they're not a socialist

 

[Plumdaff]

Whatever one might think of Wood she just lost the leadership. What are Price's politics? Everyone I consider left and vaguely Plaid aligned seems dismayed by this result And I genuinely can't understand the strategy of allowing yourself to be out flanked by a Corbyn washed Welsh Labour Party. It just seems suicidal in South Wales at least. Tbh suicidal if you have the faintest knowledge of the last decade of European politics.

 

[redsquirrel]

You're going to blame her for the rest of the party??
I've met them and seen them turn out for causes on their own time and know for fact they mean what they say, stick to their beliefs despite opposition from inside and outside the party and the amount of grief they get.
You made the claim they're not a socialist

The fact that she was in a party (in fact the leader of that party) with people that have politics that are quite clearly opposed to socialism says something about her politics doesn't it?
Turning out for causes doesn't make someone a socialist unless those causes are socialist. You say she sticks to her beliefs but she didn't argue for socialist polices as the leader of PC did she? In fact I've never seen any her make any argument for socialism whatsoever. I've got a lot more time for Wood than many elected politics (certainly more so than the other two leadership contenders) but that doesn't make her a socialist.

Whatever one might think of Wood she just lost the leadership. What are Price's politics? Everyone I consider left and vaguely Plaid aligned seems dismayed by this result And I genuinely can't understand the strategy of allowing yourself to be out flanked by a Corbyn washed Welsh Labour Party. It just seems suicidal in South Wales at least. Tbh suicidal if you have the faintest knowledge of the last decade of European politics.

Well he wants to reduce income tax and bring in a "land value tax" (very little detail on what that entails), he's clearly positioned himself as a more "centrist" than Wood, and this crap about economic growth sounds very suss.
I suppose the thinking about the move is that PC hasn't really be able to peel away that South Wales Labour vote, and with Corbyn giving the LP a boost there's even less chance of doing so, so better to move to the centre, strengthen the vote in the heartlands and try and take votes from the Tories, LibDems and Labour. Not saying I agree with that strategy but I can see the appeal, particularly to those in PC who where never completely sold on Wood's philosophy.

 

[Plumdaff]

I can't see how a party which is traditionally the party of the Welsh speaking heartlands is ever going to win over retired English speaking Tory pensioners in large numbers. And even if they did, I can't see winning numbers in it, especially if they lose the left vote in other areas to get it.

Anyhoo not my problem. Does highlight the need for radical extraparliamentary politics here. Otherwise the great hope for socialism in Wales is...... Drakeford?

 

[redsquirrel]

Well I'm not saying it's a good strategy just that I think that's what the aim is. ap Iorwerth's backing for the possibility of a PC-Tory coalition clearly have some level of support in the party.

 

[mwgdrwg]

I can't see how a party which is traditionally the party of the Welsh speaking heartlands is ever going to win over retired English speaking Tory pensioners in large numbers. And even if they did, I can't see winning numbers in it, especially if they lose the left vote in other areas to get it.

Anyhoo not my problem. Does highlight the need for radical extraparliamentary politics here. Otherwise the great hope for socialism in Wales is...... Drakeford?

Under Leanne Wood, Plaid have done really shit in the traditional Welsh speaking heartlands.

In the last general election Ynys Môn was a marginal seat. Leanne should've been here, trying to win it. Except there was absolutely no sign of her, except on telly in nonsense leaders-debates. The way such a marginal seat was ignored was unforgivable imho. An incredibly weak Labour and a weak Labour candidate got in again. Massive losses in Arfon too.

This is the number one priority imho, strengthen the traditional heartlands. Then work from there. Or pretty soon they will have zero MPs.

 

[Plumdaff]

Under Leanne Wood, Plaid have done really shit in the traditional Welsh speaking heartlands.

In the last general election Ynys Môn was a marginal seat. Leanne should've been here, trying to win it. Except there was absolutely no sign of her, except on telly in nonsense leaders-debates. The way such a marginal seat was ignored was unforgivable imho. An incredibly weak Labour and a weak Labour candidate got in again. Massive losses in Arfon too.

This is the number one priority imho, strengthen the traditional heartlands. Then work from there. Or pretty soon they will have zero MPs.

Right, so there were campaigning mistakes. But doesn't it also matter the kind of politics PC is winning those heartlands with?

 

[planetgeli]

Under Leanne Wood, Plaid have done really shit in the traditional Welsh speaking heartlands.

Not true in my Westminster seat, Carmarthen East & Dinefwr, where PC have held the seat and increased the vote both times since the collapse in 2010 (which was before Leanne).

 

[mwgdrwg]

Right, so there were campaigning mistakes. But doesn't it also matter the kind of politics PC is winning those heartlands with?

Of course. Personally I liked Leanne's politics, but maybe Price's more independece oriented view will be a winner here. If they actually do some caompaining next time

What's going to be interesting on Anglesey is the Wylfa situation. Rhun obviously being in favour, but Adam Price not.

 

[Plumdaff]

Of course. Personally I liked Leanne's politics, but maybe Price's more independece oriented view will be a winner here. If they actually do some caompaining next time

What's going to be interesting on Anglesey is the Wylfa situation. Rhun obviously being in favour, but Adam Price not.

How does a more independence centred view equate with more centrist politics and working with the Tories? Plaid has to both shore up the vote in Welsh speaking North Wales and gain ground in places like the Valleys - it isn't going to manage that if it retreats back to its more traditional role. Why can't it learn something from the SNP? (Not that I'm a massive SNP fan, but I'd desperately like to see a decent left challenge to Labour in Wales).

It's profoundly depressing that the only politician actively campaigning about Geiger Bay is Neil fucking McEvoy.

 

[mwgdrwg]

How does a more independence centred view equate with more centrist politics and working with the Tories? Plaid has to both shore up the vote in Welsh speaking North Wales and gain ground in places like the Valleys - it isn't going to manage that if it retreats back to its more traditional role. Why can't it learn something from the SNP? (Not that I'm a massive SNP fan, but I'd desperately like to see a decent left challenge to Labour in Wales).

It's profoundly depressing that the only politician actively campaigning about Geiger Bay is Neil fucking McEvoy.

I have absolutely no idea. As I said I liked Leanne and am in agreement with you.