people who voted tory

[Barking_Mad]

At first glance the key seems to be the 15% shift away from Lib Dems. Did that not in essence just give the Tories victories places they were 2nd in? It doesn't appear with just a 0.8% increase in the share of the vote that the Tories won people over?

 

[jakethesnake]

I think the way forward lies in community organising... claimant's unions, IWW and the like. A lot harder work than just voting but ultimately worthwhile. I hate to admit this but yes, the Labour Party is probably a complete waste of time. Pickman's took me to task on election day, pointing out just how morally bankrupt the Labour Party have become since the 90's - I disagreed with him then but I'm starting to come round to his way of thinking (I'm not particularly happy about this and would still prefer a Labour govt. over a Tory one, but there it is).

 

[FiFi]

one of the other threads touches on it - in the 1990's and 2000's no one voted tory, they were toxic. now its Labours turn. the Tories were toxic because of their (de)industrial policy, Labour are now toxic because (in the public mind) of a decade and a half of war for little visible result and the tanking of an economy. facts don't matter, policies matter little more. its simply Labours turn to be unelectable.

And because of this, some of which I have indulged in myself (protest against the war etc), we will have to ride out the next 5 years by drawing attention to the things that none of the politicians are saying.
Some people are genuinely unaware of the realities of the Health and Social Care Act or TTIP, and do not realise how it will effect services in the future.

 

[Pickman's model]

And because of this, some of which I have indulged in myself (protest against the war etc), we will have to ride out the next 5 years by drawing attention to the things that none of the politicians are saying.
Some people are genuinely unaware of the realities of the Health and Social Care Act or TTIP, and do not realise how it will effect services in the future.

affect, not effect

 

[brogdale]

Yep. I spoke to someone who voted tory on Thursday, and he gave the economy as the reason. Is a home owner in a well-paid job, voted Labour last time. He even acknowledged that the economic recovery (as he sees it) may be nothing to do with tory policy and just down to luck on their part, but still it was enough for him to switch. The bit that horrified me wasn't this bit, but his reply to my response about the bedroom tax, etc - which was a resolute 'why should I pay for someone to have a spare room'. He was genuinely clueless about the effects of tory cuts.

The economic 'recovery' is everything to do with tory policy. Whilst using the 'austerity' narrative as a cover for their small state, consolidator agenda, Osborne went for real deficit reduction early on in the electoral cycle, but the last 2 to 3 years have seen the foot come off the deficit reduction pedal. They've engineered the 'recovery' by artificially retarding the economic cycle and growth that was evident 2008-10.

 

[FiFi]

affect, not effect

At self!

 

[treelover]

I have a horrible feeling my close relatives(blairites usually) voted Tory

 

[treelover]

And because of this, some of which I have indulged in myself (protest against the war etc), we will have to ride out the next 5 years by drawing attention to the things that none of the politicians are saying.
Some people are genuinely unaware of the realities of the Health and Social Care Act or TTIP, and do not realise how it will effect services in the future.

I think the SNP plan to do this in parliament, or am I am being too optimistic?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The economic 'recovery' is everything to do with tory policy. Whilst using the 'austerity' narrative as a cover for their small state, consolidator agenda, Osborne went for real deficit reduction early on in the electoral cycle, but the last 2 to 3 years have seen the foot come off the deficit reduction pedal. They've engineered the 'recovery' by artificially retarding the economic cycle and growth that was evident 2008-10.

I think you probably give them too much credit. Like Thatcher in 79, they embarked on a quite absurd policy at the start of their administration (monetarism in Thatcher's case, austerity in Cameron's), which they had to quietly reverse to a large part when its entirely predictable results on the economy became clear. But I doubt it was a master plan - it wasn't with Thatcher, she believed her shit.

 

[chilango]

I was very angry on Friday with the people who voted conservative. But this is just a knee jerk reaction tbh. As someone else posted on here, do we really write off a quarter/a third of the population as being cunts especially since labour is pretty much equally pro austerity? I was gonna ask what can 'we' do to 'win these people over' but then that seems massively patronising.

What do we do from here though? Is electoral politics a total waste of time? Anyone got any ideas?

The people to "win" are those who "we" share common material interests with. Our workmates, our neighbours...regardless of who they voted for or whether they voted at all.

A more pertinent question is the "what ?"and "how?".

 

[Pickman's model]

i wonder how many tory voters have died since thursday.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the SNP plan to do this in parliament, or am I am being too optimistic?

yes

 

[chilango]

...also in last day or two I've talked to a few people who voted Tory (and often for the first time). Every single one of them gave "the economy" as the reason.

 

[Casually Red]

The bit that horrified me wasn't this bit, but his reply to my response about the bedroom tax, etc - which was a resolute 'why should I pay for someone to have a spare room'. He was genuinely clueless about the effects of tory cuts.

I suspect a lot of those types of people aren't clueless, they really simply don't give a fuck . It simply doesn't affect them personally . That's Thatchers legacy , which was canonised by Blair as right and proper . The English earth seems to have been contaminated with this scourge , like it's in the water . When labour took power they should have " de-Thatcherised " England , in much the same way Germany was denazified . Instead they rehabilitated the old bitch . Canonised her . So her neo liberal individualism is now the accepted wisdom whether it's Tory, labour or liberal . It's perfectly normal everyday opinion, when the opportunity was there to root it out of the public discourse as a cancerous and ruinous social evil .

With Thatcherism in some form accepted as common sense right across the board you're going to have those attitudes no matter which party they vote for . It's that cancer which labour never addressed, except to praise it, which is at the root of labours own downfall . They've pretty much Americanised the British political scene, to where you basically have 2 factions of the same capitalist , neo liberal party . And personality and attitude is what determines who wins . Little else .

It's worth remembering that there was precious little of any comfort in the labour pledges to begin with . And if they had got in there'd have been the usual stalling, u turning and reneging on them as well . By which stage they'd have been little more than a more slowly moving Tory machine anyway , just less efficient at implementing the same basic programme .

The SNP destroyed labour by adopting a much more community orientated focus , not merely as regards nationalism, but by confronting the truth head on . They're both fucking Tories in spirit and in action . And they're both out to screw us on behalf of the same people , they both are rotten neo liberals to the core . And they most certainly didn't have to go to the extremes of the far left in order to do that . They just made an honest appeal to basic human decency . Something thats seen as akin to lunacy in a lot of places south of the border .

 

[Pickman's model]

The SNP destroyed labour by adopting a much more community orientated focus , not merely as regards nationalism, but by confronting the truth head on . They're both fucking Tories in spirit and in action . And they're both out to screw us on behalf of the same people , they both are rotten neo liberals to the core . And they most certainly didn't have to go to the extremes of the far left in order to do that . They just made an honest appeal to basic human decency . Something thats seen as akin to lunacy in a lot of places south of the border .

something so radical that it makes them appear to many as crazed lefties.

 

[Dogsauce]

In terms of activism, I think it needs to bypass parliament as they're just the skivvies for a whole other tier of bastards, the hedge funds, healthcare industry lobbyists, media moguls etc. that guide and shape policy more than letters from constituents. There's little direct pushback against these interests, they don't have any accountability yet lives are being destroyed by their actions. The focus should be on making it harder for them to operate, and also on shining a light on what they do.

If a few thousand marched on McKinsey's UK HQ and it got on the news people might want to know what it's about. At the moment they have a human shield of parliament, and people marching on Downing St are impotent.

Some of the UK uncut stuff wasn't too bad for this - they targeted and occupied shops, and the public became aware of why they were doing this - tax avoidance became a much greater issue, and linking avoidance to cuts hit home with some.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Yep. I spoke to someone who voted tory on Thursday, and he gave the economy as the reason. Is a home owner in a well-paid job, voted Labour last time. He even acknowledged that the economic recovery (as he sees it) may be nothing to do with tory policy and just down to luck on their part, but still it was enough for him to switch. The bit that horrified me wasn't this bit, but his reply to my response about the bedroom tax, etc - which was a resolute 'why should I pay for someone to have a spare room'. He was genuinely clueless about the effects of tory cuts.

And the thing about the "economic recovery" is that it doesn't matter if the Tories caused it or not (which they very plainly did not), because most voters are risk averse ("If it ain't broke, don't fix it").

Sympathy for others always a pretty weak motivator on polling day. An effect exaggerated by FPTP...

 

[kebabking]

I think the SNP plan to do this in parliament, or am I am being too optimistic?

welcome to the sordid world of party politics.

the SNP will want to bang the drum for domestic consumption, but if you think that what the SNP want is a new UK-wide, anti-austerity, social-democratic mass membership Labour (or any other) party to be awakened by the banging of that drum then you're being horribly niave.

the SNP want a Westminster government that will offend as many Scots as possible, and they want to be seen as the only - perhaps PC/Greens excepted, because frankly they don't matter in Scotland - party challenging that Westminster government.

that, and only that, will clear the decks for them in Scotland. and that is what they exist for, not Westminster.

 

[Casually Red]

Tax avoidance should be called for what it is, organised crime . On a massive scale . Instead it's classed as something mildly socially embarrassing if you're caught at it . Like watching porn or something .
People would be better off descending on the likes of price Waterhouse coopers than downing street . They'd be addressing not just the scale of organised crime but certain political parties proximity to it .

 

[cantsin]

I used to know a very posh lad back in the raving days, seemed a nice bloke - he's just ousted a LibDem to become a Tory MP six yrs after he first entered local / parish / whatever politics (according to wiki) - was disappointed he'd got involved, gutted he won the bloody seat (next county along) + bit gutted I didn't take some of the 8/1 on betfair against him winning - but when I went and read his twitter feed and found him politely coating off Kate Hopkins for her 'gunboats for immigrants' schtick, it did make me feel a bit better ( in the middle of what felt like a very glum frday) to see he was still human / hadn't just turned into a monster, that there are degrees of shitness.....

( though am slightly suspicious that the mildly pro immigrant stance might also be related to the ammount of farmers in his constit. , possibly reliant on cheap immigrant labour) .

 

[Casually Red]

welcome to the sordid world of party politics.

the SNP will want to bang the drum for domestic consumption, but if you think that what the SNP want is a new UK-wide, anti-austerity, social-democratic mass membership Labour (or any other) party to be awakened by the banging of that drum then you're being horribly niave.

the SNP want a Westminster government that will offend as many Scots as possible, and they want to be seen as the only - perhaps PC/Greens excepted, because frankly they don't matter in Scotland - party challenging that Westminster government.

that, and only that, will clear the decks for them in Scotland. and that is what they exist for, not Westminster.

In fairness that's what you're going to get regardless if it suits the snp or not . They aren't a factor in it . They can't be blamed for being right about Scotland's future if it remains hitched to Westminster .

 

[Combustible]

Stressing the benefits of universality to everyone by pointing at the NHS. Doing such a thing while avoiding the accusation from the tory press that it is a return to 'tax/borrow and spend' is trickier as it involves addressing the false assumptions and misunderstandings that are used as the rationale behind austerity. Given that, austerity may need to blow up economically first.

I think Labour really were hamstrung by the inability to offer anything in the way of spending because of austerity. Because of this the positive things they could offer were things like mildly reigning in business and landlords which could easily be spun as them wanting to restrict business without offering much else. Peter Kellner made the point that even in PR terms Labour's policies seemed very negative, whereas opposition parties often do well when they present a positive image. Now he is a right wing Blairite who thinks that Miliband should have not been 'restricting' business but encouraging it but I think he has a point there that just having these policies might have seemed negative/pessimistic, but more positive progressive policies would require spending which would have gone against austerity. And the Labour leadership had no interest in really challenging austerity and even if they had, they would probably have also lost.

 

[Sprocket.]

Until people are affected by inequality most will not give other peoples problems a second thought.
With the media avalanche of how it could all be lost by voting for any party other than the conservatives the vast majority vote for them.
The amount of people who said to me they couldn't trust Miliband, just look how he treat his brother, is another issue that gave the Tories a boost.
Also those who took in the polls that it was neck and neck were panicked into voting Tory. I work with a lot of ex miners and steel workers and the offspring of miners and steelworkers and most of them told me with no uncertainty they were voting Ukip cos Labour didn't care anymore. When I said vote for TUSC then I was told it was a waste of a vote because nobody would notice. Plus I got told to fuck off to Russia by some, that's how on the ball most workers are sadly.

 

[Casually Red]

Until people are affected by inequality most will not give other peoples problems a second thought.
.

You have a situation were the wealth gap has never been wider, so most people actually are affected by inequality . What seems to be wrong is that despite that people have sought to blame others and not the " wealth creators" . It's a sad fact that in Britain there's now an ongoing upsurge of hate crime against the disabled ...ffs..that's been going on a few years now..England's not a kick in the arse off " useless eaters " as regards the outlook of some of its population . And even that stuff appears to be emanating from a lumpen element, people who have fuck all but have now found someone even lower down the ladder to blame for that .

That's a telltale sign of a society that's taking on fascist attitudes . Not the goose stepping and the torches but the hatred and scapegoating that's emanating from the top downwards . From newspaper columnists to Jeremy fucking Kyle . English culture is rife with this hateful shit on a daily basis .The reason it's not spilling over into the BNP and the traditional far right is because the mainstream english discourse is happy enough to embrace it and accomodate it .There's plenty of room in the middle of the road, you don't have to drift towards the loony fringes to embrace some aspects of fascism under a neo liberal system .

While at the same time the very scum who whipped up that type of hatred week in week out are claiming milliband lost because he was a Marxist class warrior, stirring up hatred, division and destroying social cohesion by merely hinting at the rich might have to pay a bit of tax...sort of ..and um...sort of hinting this massive gap in equality might be bad for capitalism in the long run . Aaaargh...its stalin reincarnated .The cheeky bastards . And it's going almost completely unchallenged .

The people who actively encouraged hatred and scapegoating of the poor and disabled , hatred of the scots , hatred of anyone who doesn't agree massive inequality is a good thing ,accusing milliband of being negative and divisive

It'll take a a major cultural shift to defeat that shit , not just some political reshuffling and realignment on the English left . It seems so deep rooted in the discourse its just overwhelming . It'll take a cultural war of sorts . Not just political campaigning .

 

[mk12]

...also in last day or two I've talked to a few people who voted Tory (and often for the first time). Every single one of them gave "the economy" as the reason.

Yep, this is my experience too. Simply put, they personally did OK over the last five years. They trusted the Tories more than Miliband on managing the economy. They liked Cameron more than Miliband. They didn't think the last five years were as bad as leftists have made out, and they don't think the Tories will destroy the NHS or anything like that.

Obviously these responses raise a lot of questions (are these people just selfish?), but I do think it confirms that swinging to the left will not win these voters back to Labour.

 

[YouSir]

Yep, this is my experience too. Simply put, they personally did OK over the last five years. They trusted the Tories more than Miliband on managing the economy. They liked Cameron more than Miliband. They didn't think the last five years were as bad as leftists have made out, and they don't think the Tories will destroy the NHS or anything like that.

Obviously these responses raise a lot of questions (are these people just selfish?), but I do think it confirms that swinging to the left will not win these voters back to Labour.

If there was someone competent on the Left to swing to... The self interest and personal 'I'm alright' shit of the Tories might be convincing to people in the moment but it doesn't take huge eloquence or savvy to show them how austerity and the effect it has on millions of people is going to swing around to effect us all soon enough. Even with self interest accounted for, unless you're very rich, a society run solely to the benefit of the rich will always lose out to one where people get better wages, better education, better health care, better support and the rest. Something the US 'middle classes' are coming to realise now for all the good it does them.

 

[stavros]

do we really write off a quarter/a third of the population as being cunts especially since labour is pretty much equally pro austerity?

I'm going slightly off-topic here, but I think cuntdom can manifest itself in a plethora of ways, and perhaps it's difficult to define whether an individual is a cunt or not in such a binary fashion. Thus the above proportion of the electorate have voted in a cuntish way, but in many cases have been manipulated to do so by those who truly qualify for such a status.

 

[treelover]

You have a situation were the wealth gap has never been wider, so most people actually are affected by inequality . What seems to be wrong is that despite that people have sought to blame others and not the " wealth creators" . It's a sad fact that in Britain there's now an ongoing upsurge of hate crime against the disabled ...ffs..that's been going on a few years now..England's not a kick in the arse off " useless eaters " as regards the outlook of some of its population . And even that stuff appears to be emanating from a lumpen element, people who have fuck all but have now found someone even lower down the ladder to blame for that .

That's a telltale sign of a society that's taking on fascist attitudes . Not the goose stepping and the torches but the hatred and scapegoating that's emanating from the top downwards . From newspaper columnists to Jeremy fucking Kyle . English culture is rife with this hateful shit on a daily basis .The reason it's not spilling over into the BNP and the traditional far right is because the mainstream english discourse is happy enough to embrace it and accomodate it .There's plenty of room in the middle of the road, you don't have to drift towards the loony fringes to embrace some aspects of fascism under a neo liberal system .

While at the same time the very scum who whipped up that type of hatred week in week out are claiming milliband lost because he was a Marxist class warrior, stirring up hatred, division and destroying social cohesion by merely hinting at the rich might have to pay a bit of tax...sort of ..and um...sort of hinting this massive gap in equality might be bad for capitalism in the long run . Aaaargh...its stalin reincarnated .The cheeky bastards . And it's going almost completely unchallenged .

The people who actively encouraged hatred and scapegoating of the poor and disabled , hatred of the scots , hatred of anyone who doesn't agree massive inequality is a good thing ,accusing milliband of being negative and divisive

It'll take a a major cultural shift to defeat that shit , not just some political reshuffling and realignment on the English left . It seems so deep rooted in the discourse its just overwhelming . It'll take a cultural war of sorts . Not just political campaigning .

Excellent post, it could start with getting that message across to young people and students, quite accessible to other young leftists, etc, but their(young activists) priorities seem elsewhere.

 

[treelover]

Yep, this is my experience too. Simply put, they personally did OK over the last five years. They trusted the Tories more than Miliband on managing the economy. They liked Cameron more than Miliband. They didn't think the last five years were as bad as leftists have made out, and they don't think the Tories will destroy the NHS or anything like that.

Obviously these responses raise a lot of questions (are these people just selfish?), but I do think it confirms that swinging to the left will not win these voters back to Labour.

We have had a very biased media this last five years, especially on the BBC, I suspect they don't know the depth of suffering a number of people are going through. It is only discussed on social media, and if you are not looking, you won't find it.

 

[treelover]

If there was someone competent on the Left to swing to... The self interest and personal 'I'm alright' shit of the Tories might be convincing to people in the moment but it doesn't take huge eloquence or savvy to show them how austerity and the effect it has on millions of people is going to swing around to effect us all soon enough. Even with self interest accounted for, unless you're very rich, a society run solely to the benefit of the rich will always lose out to one where people get better wages, better education, better health care, better support and the rest. Something the US 'middle classes' are coming to realise now for all the good it does them.

I can remember many posters on here saying the exact same thing, four years ago, there were even threads detailing the 'resistance' to the cuts, etc, imo, I really don't know what can be done, and when the election atmosphere dies down and we are back in the individualised quiet desperation of those facing the brunt, there will be more suicides, etc.