Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher
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Treacle Toes
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Yes, I am - Thanks.
The point is, you don't have to believe or even like something to understand and respect other people do.
They teach their kids about a magical, all powerful deity (That being mutually exclusive to evolution) - You seem to be suggesting refusing to allow them to teach their religion, or maybe banning it. Perhaps you'd like to comment.
They also teach their kids they can only marry other Muslims - up to them as long as they don't stop me or anyone else doing what I feel is right. Their kids, when they're old enough to be independent, can tell their families to fuck off, then marry who the hell they like, regardless of sexual orientation or whatever.
If they attack me for being in a mixed race marriage, or attack people for being in a gay relationship, I'll have something to say - until then, they're the ones being told to change to suit another group's ideals, thus are the victims.
Posters here don't seem to get it's wrong to impose their views and ideals upon all. Personally, I'm perfectly happy to accept any loving relationship between anyone, but these parents are not, and that's their choice in their community, so should be respected unless they try to impose their values on other people.
If you allow a minority to be oppressed by other groups, where do you draw the line? I read a pretty disgusting story about gays in Brunei risking being whipped or murdered by stoning for being who they are, that monstrous law being so wrong it's beyond what any human should even consider but, if you accept the principle one group is allowed to impose its values on minorities because they don't like them, you also have to support that inhuman behaviour.
I suppose you could kick all Muslims and Catholics who refuse to give up their religion out of the country, or maybe bung them in re-education camps, but that seems a little too nazi for my tastes.
So, where would you draw he line when it comes to forcing people to accept others points of view, and what action would you take against them?
What was that phrase? ah, Thoughtcrime.
That looks after that post - Making up a possible narrative in order to make a point is a bit of a crappy debating style.
Frankly, I think religion is a load of old shit, but I feel I have to respect others believe and feel it's right for them.
Would you make their thoughts illegal?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No she doesn’t.
You, however, seem not to be reading or understanding people’s posts. Perhaps you could start with that. Instead of making stuff up.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Good on you for trying Danny but I think you're whistling into the void with this wanker.
What would you do if a bunch of parents went into Balans in Soho and tried to tell you how you should live your lives?
I'm guessing you'd tell them to fuck off and stop trying to impose their values on you.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I’ve not heard of Balans in Soho, but I’m guessing from context it’s a gay bar. It’s interesting that you think we all frequent it. But leaving that aside (and assuming that it is indeed a gay bar), let’s think for a moment whether there is any parallel here. Is the analogy you’ve set up in any way apt?
What you been told is that schools teach societal norms. That families can teach whatever religious values they wish in their homes. But that it would be best if schools taught about religions, rather imposing religious observance, and that religious observance is a matter for the home. Which part of that sounds like “banning religion”?
Your stance is akin to the liberal establishment deciding what constitutes “authentic” Muslim culture, alighting on the most reactionary elements of Muslim cultures and deciding them to be essential, and seeking to entrench those values, believing that to equate to anti racism. This is in fact what top down multiculturalism has done. (I recommend reading Kenan Malik for in depth description of the history of this effect).
Rather, what needs to be done is for those of us who would support and enhance liberatory impulses to support and amplify those voices within Muslim cultures who seek to fight the forces of conservative reaction: in other words gay Muslims, feminist Muslims, and so on. And in this way enhance inter community solidarities and cooperation.
This is not in any way the same as bursting into a mosque kitchen and “telling people how to live their lives”.
Your moral relativism is actually a force for reaction.
High Voltage
In the top 97% of Urban's most interesting posters
I’ve not heard of Balans in Soho, but I’m guessing from context it’s a gay bar. . . .
A quick Google shows that it's a caff - a nice caff - but a caff never the less and, let's be honest here, their FEB would NOT go down well on that thread
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Of course not.
I would make it illegal for the religious to proselytize in public or display religious symbols in public places, to open religious schools, to stop their childen attending a class at regular school, or to disfigure their children's bodies in any way. I would also make religious groups pay tax like other businesses. And completely disestablish religion from the state.
Off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more to be done but that would be a good start.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I don’t support you in this.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Then you're just becoming the monster of this idiots brain.
if anything the above should be compulsory for the religious.
It is - The guy went into a school that has a mostly Muslim takeup, and tried to tell them what they should and should not allow.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No it isn’t.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Here I would draw a distinction between respecting a person's right to practise their religion and hold beliefs on one hand and respecting those beliefs on the other. I would support the former but not the latter. Nobody should have a right not to have their beliefs questioned. Indeed thinking that religious belief is stupid or damaging or even evil itself can be framed as a belief.
So: you have the right to believe what you want, but I have the right to take whatever attitude I like towards your belief. No special protection.
OMG - How would you punish a Catholic for wearing a crucifix, or a Muslim for wearing a headscarf?
Ye godz, you're a dangerous fucker
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
But it's an idiot's brain, so no biggie. Callous this morning, I'm working this weekend!
I'm not sure what should be compulsory, from what you posted. Please explain (or not)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He did this on his own then? Or was it an attempt to comply with collectively agreed standards and practices? Why am i bothering?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Oh ffs. Clutch those pearls, go on!
Please explain how entering a mostly Muslim area and telling them they have to abandon parts of their belief system is not telling them what to do.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
See my post, above.
Agreed by whom, and standard where?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
There is no rule in Catholicism that says 'wear a crucifix', likewise in Islam about headscarves. It's not like wearing a crash helmet on a motorbike, or a seatbelt in a car. It's decoration, lke wearing a band t-shirt or a fashion logo.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Is this some sort of joke? A child's jape? What on earth is wrong with you?
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
He's an employee of the school, not some random enthusiast who wandered in from the street
You failed to explain what punishments you would impose for their faith
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