Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher

[planetgeli]

Yeah of course you did. That's why you waded in trying to draw definitive lines between the two spellings as if there's no relationship and insisted that it's only used to describe Black South Africans. You were wrong on both counts.

I have a problem with racist terminology. I couldn't care less what you think.

No of course you don’t. That’s why you’re replying to my posts.

#lastwordism

 

[Treacle Toes]

No of course you don’t. That’s why you’re replying to my posts.

#lastwordism

All you have left I see.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Quite remarkable.

Yes, I am - Thanks.
The point is, you don't have to believe or even like something to understand and respect other people do.

 

[Don Troooomp]

If, for religious reasons, 90% of parents wanted a school to stop teaching evolution, would that be ok with you?

What about if part of young children’s relationships education told them that mixed race relationships were normal and healthy, but a bunch of parents objected to that on cultural grounds?

They teach their kids about a magical, all powerful deity (That being mutually exclusive to evolution) - You seem to be suggesting refusing to allow them to teach their religion, or maybe banning it. Perhaps you'd like to comment.

They also teach their kids they can only marry other Muslims - up to them as long as they don't stop me or anyone else doing what I feel is right. Their kids, when they're old enough to be independent, can tell their families to fuck off, then marry who the hell they like, regardless of sexual orientation or whatever.
If they attack me for being in a mixed race marriage, or attack people for being in a gay relationship, I'll have something to say - until then, they're the ones being told to change to suit another group's ideals, thus are the victims.

Posters here don't seem to get it's wrong to impose their views and ideals upon all. Personally, I'm perfectly happy to accept any loving relationship between anyone, but these parents are not, and that's their choice in their community, so should be respected unless they try to impose their values on other people.

If you allow a minority to be oppressed by other groups, where do you draw the line? I read a pretty disgusting story about gays in Brunei risking being whipped or murdered by stoning for being who they are, that monstrous law being so wrong it's beyond what any human should even consider but, if you accept the principle one group is allowed to impose its values on minorities because they don't like them, you also have to support that inhuman behaviour.

I suppose you could kick all Muslims and Catholics who refuse to give up their religion out of the country, or maybe bung them in re-education camps, but that seems a little too nazi for my tastes.

So, where would you draw he line when it comes to forcing people to accept others points of view, and what action would you take against them?

What was that phrase? ah, Thoughtcrime.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Maybe

That looks after that post - Making up a possible narrative in order to make a point is a bit of a crappy debating style.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Like when religious people get in charge of a place and make everyone do what they say (aka what god says)

Religion, eh? Believe what you want and keep it to your self.

Frankly, I think religion is a load of old shit, but I feel I have to respect others believe and feel it's right for them.
Would you make their thoughts illegal?

 

[danny la rouge]

You seem to be suggesting refusing to allow them to teach their religion, or maybe banning it. Perhaps you'd like to comment.

No she doesn’t.

You, however, seem not to be reading or understanding people’s posts. Perhaps you could start with that. Instead of making stuff up.

 

[redsquirrel]

Good on you for trying Danny but I think you're whistling into the void with this wanker.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Good on you for trying Danny but I think you're whistling into the void with this wanker.

What would you do if a bunch of parents went into Balans in Soho and tried to tell you how you should live your lives?
I'm guessing you'd tell them to fuck off and stop trying to impose their values on you.

 

[danny la rouge]

What would you do if a bunch of parents went into Balans in Soho and tried to tell you how you should live your lives?
I'm guessing you'd tell them to fuck off and stop trying to impose their values on you.

I’ve not heard of Balans in Soho, but I’m guessing from context it’s a gay bar. It’s interesting that you think we all frequent it. But leaving that aside (and assuming that it is indeed a gay bar), let’s think for a moment whether there is any parallel here. Is the analogy you’ve set up in any way apt?

What you been told is that schools teach societal norms. That families can teach whatever religious values they wish in their homes. But that it would be best if schools taught about religions, rather imposing religious observance, and that religious observance is a matter for the home. Which part of that sounds like “banning religion”?

Your stance is akin to the liberal establishment deciding what constitutes “authentic” Muslim culture, alighting on the most reactionary elements of Muslim cultures and deciding them to be essential, and seeking to entrench those values, believing that to equate to anti racism. This is in fact what top down multiculturalism has done. (I recommend reading Kenan Malik for in depth description of the history of this effect).

Rather, what needs to be done is for those of us who would support and enhance liberatory impulses to support and amplify those voices within Muslim cultures who seek to fight the forces of conservative reaction: in other words gay Muslims, feminist Muslims, and so on. And in this way enhance inter community solidarities and cooperation.

This is not in any way the same as bursting into a mosque kitchen and “telling people how to live their lives”.

Your moral relativism is actually a force for reaction.

 

[High Voltage]

I’ve not heard of Balans in Soho, but I’m guessing from context it’s a gay bar. . . .

A quick Google shows that it's a caff - a nice caff - but a caff never the less and, let's be honest here, their FEB would NOT go down well on that thread

 

[mojo pixy]

Frankly, I think religion is a load of old shit, but I feel I have to respect others believe and feel it's right for them.
Would you make their thoughts illegal?

Of course not.

I would make it illegal for the religious to proselytize in public or display religious symbols in public places, to open religious schools, to stop their childen attending a class at regular school, or to disfigure their children's bodies in any way. I would also make religious groups pay tax like other businesses. And completely disestablish religion from the state.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more to be done but that would be a good start.

 

[danny la rouge]

I would make it illegal to proselytize in public or display religious symbols in public places,

I don’t support you in this.

 

[mojo pixy]

That's ok, many people would not and there are arguments against everything I wrote there. But I feel religion has had too much public space for too long, and anything that can reduce that should be done.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course not.

I would make it illegal for the religious to proselytize in public or display religious symbols in public places, to open religious schools, to stop their childen attending a class at regular school, or to disfigure their children's bodies in any way. I would also make religious groups pay tax like other businesses. And completely disestablish religion from the state.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more to be done but that would be a good start.

Then you're just becoming the monster of this idiots brain.

if anything the above should be compulsory for the religious.

 

[Don Troooomp]

This is not in any way the same as bursting into a mosque kitchen and “telling people how to live their lives”.

It is - The guy went into a school that has a mostly Muslim takeup, and tried to tell them what they should and should not allow.

 

[danny la rouge]

It is - The guy went into a school that has a mostly Muslim takeup, and tried to tell them what they should and should not allow.

No it isn’t.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Frankly, I think religion is a load of old shit, but I feel I have to respect others believe and feel it's right for them.
Would you make their thoughts illegal?

Here I would draw a distinction between respecting a person's right to practise their religion and hold beliefs on one hand and respecting those beliefs on the other. I would support the former but not the latter. Nobody should have a right not to have their beliefs questioned. Indeed thinking that religious belief is stupid or damaging or even evil itself can be framed as a belief.

So: you have the right to believe what you want, but I have the right to take whatever attitude I like towards your belief. No special protection.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I would make it illegal for the religious to proselytize in public or display religious symbols in public places

OMG - How would you punish a Catholic for wearing a crucifix, or a Muslim for wearing a headscarf?
Ye godz, you're a dangerous fucker

 

[mojo pixy]

Then you're just becoming the monster of this idiots brain.

But it's an idiot's brain, so no biggie. Callous this morning, I'm working this weekend!

I'm not sure what should be compulsory, from what you posted. Please explain (or not)

 

[butchersapron]

It is - The guy went into a school that has a mostly Muslim takeup, and tried to tell them what they should and should not allow.

He did this on his own then? Or was it an attempt to comply with collectively agreed standards and practices? Why am i bothering?

 

[mojo pixy]

OMG - How would you punish a Catholic for wearing a crucifix, or a Muslim for wearing a headscarf?
Ye godz, you're a dangerous fucker

Oh ffs. Clutch those pearls, go on!

 

[Don Troooomp]

No it isn’t.

Please explain how entering a mostly Muslim area and telling them they have to abandon parts of their belief system is not telling them what to do.

 

[danny la rouge]

Please explain how entering a mostly Muslim area and telling them they have to abandon parts of their belief system is not telling them what to do.

See my post, above.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Or was it an attempt to comply with collectively agreed standards and practices

Agreed by whom, and standard where?

 

[mojo pixy]

OMG - How would you punish a Catholic for wearing a crucifix, or a Muslim for wearing a headscarf?
Ye godz, you're a dangerous fucker

There is no rule in Catholicism that says 'wear a crucifix', likewise in Islam about headscarves. It's not like wearing a crash helmet on a motorbike, or a seatbelt in a car. It's decoration, lke wearing a band t-shirt or a fashion logo.

 

[butchersapron]

Agreed by whom, and standard where?

Is this some sort of joke? A child's jape? What on earth is wrong with you?

 

[tim]

It is - The guy went into a school that has a mostly Muslim takeup, and tried to tell them what they should and should not allow.

He's an employee of the school, not some random enthusiast who wandered in from the street

 

[Don Troooomp]

There is no rule in Catholicism that says 'wear a crucifix', likewise in Islam about headscarves. It's not like wearing a crash helmet on a motorbike, or a seatbelt in a car. It's decoration, lke wearing a band t-shirt or a fashion logo.

You failed to explain what punishments you would impose for their faith

 

[Don Troooomp]

He's an employee of the school, not some random enthusiast who wandered in from the street

and that changes what?