Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher

[mojo pixy]

Thing is, how can there ever be real social justice for all, when most people (or a sizable minority) a. take their morals and ethics from an ancient book, and b. think everything will be great after they die.

It's not going away by itself. So what is the answer? How does society best deal with corrupting, regressive forces? Religions are at the heart of patriarchy, justify empires and all manner of cruelties.

What I was posting was moderate, under the circumstances. Look at this shit in Brum, that's religion, right there. Fascism with a pious face.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thing is, how can there ever be real social justice for all, when most people (or a sizable minority) a. take their morals and ethics from an ancient book, and b. think everything will be great after they die.

It's not going away by itself. So what is the answer? How does society best deal with corrupting, regressive forces? Religions are at the heart of patriarchy, justify empires and all manner of cruelties.

What I was posting was moderate, under the circumstances. Look at this shit in Brum, that's religion, right there. Fascism with a pious face.

I used to take a similar line. I've mellowed a bit as I've got older, partly due to the realisation that most religious people don't take their religion nearly as seriously as I take it. Fundamentalists take their belief and its implications seriously, but they are in a minority among the religious. For many people it is a rather fuzzy background thing, as much to do with belonging as belief.

 

[mojo pixy]

fair enough, I used to be more tolerant but a few experiences have hardened my views as I've got older. I'm not even necessarily atheistic, it depends on my mood, and I can be as sentimental and superstitious as the next human. but anti-religious, yes. fuck yes.

 

[Serge Forward]

I know anarchists who, as people, act like utter cunts. I know religious people who, apart for their weird belief in a magic man who lives in the sky, are basically sound, don't cross picket lines and really really don't want to kill people with different views and lgbt people.

The issue is capitalism and how to fight it. That means bringing working class people onside and switching people on to revolutionary politics, irrespective of their private or personal religious superstitions. Alienating them will never create class unity or a mass culture of resistance.

That said, I've no problem with you seeing off that Don Toooomp fool, as long as he continues to talk bollocks

 

[mojo pixy]

But religion justifies capitalism. It's the rulebook by which capitalism as we know it was built.

I don't care if anarchists act like twats at times, because anarchism is a sound philosophy and people can be twats I don't care if some religious people are sweet, their positive behaviour is despite religion not because of it. The two are really not comparable.

 

[Serge Forward]

Voting in elections also justifies capitalism but I'm not going to call voters cunts. I'd rather remind them that the bosses win either way they vote.

 

[mojo pixy]

Voting doesn't justify capitalism. At best it's a fig leaf for it.

Incidentally, priests and imams are not elected.

And I honestly never called religious people cunts. I wouldn't. They aren't. Gullible, cowardly, lazy, maybe. but not just 'cunts'.

 

[Serge Forward]

As I'm 100% atheist, you're preaching to the converted, mojo pixy. Our difference is mainly in how we address religious people.

 

[mojo pixy]

Bah, some of my best friends are religious

I'm less interested in being rude to and about religious believers and religions, than I am in just being rid of them. There are good things in religions, I note the Eightfold Path of Buddhism in particular. The character of Jesus has some great lines. Ancient stories and myth are interesting and valuable. But the wisdom and stories aren't the same as the religious superstructure, and it's the superstructure, the rules and potential for social control which us the problem, that's what attracts the control freaks and bullies and poisons society.

That's the bit we call "religion", and IMO we can and should be rid of that while keeping the actual wisdom which is wrapped up in it .. whose main religious purpose is justifying the existence of the religion itself. As if you can't have one without the other (well, religious believers would say you can't)

Belonging, I get. But in that case keep it private .. like a social club. But it's a club whose members actually consider themselves better people for being in, even if they pretend not to.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't care if some religious people are sweet, their positive behaviour is despite religion not because of it.

That's questionable imo. The various religious groups that run food vans for the homeless are an example of how people organising their behaviour via religion can do good things. On balance, I'm with you about the destructive nature of religion, but people can find good things both in the world and in themselves in a way that they express in religious terms. I say that as someone who would describe himself, like serge forward, as 100% atheist.

 

[mojo pixy]

The various religious groups that run food vans for the homeless are an example of how people organising their behaviour via religion can do good things.

Perhaps at one time humans needed religion to act with compassion, but now we don't. Needing a pretext for compassion, more than just compassion itself, kind of exemplifies the issue.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Perhaps at one time humans needed religion to act with compassion, but now we don't. Needing a pretext for compassion, more than just compassion itself, kind of exemplifies the issue.

The morality of religions comes from us. It's bottom up, not top down. I think humans can collectively move beyond organised religions and religious belief systems. It won't happen in our lifetimes, though.

 

[mojo pixy]

The morality of religions comes from us. It's bottom up, not top down.

I agree, which is why I wrote perhaps. I think compassion is innate, which is another reason I'm so anti religious. Religion has usurped and stolen morals from us. I for one resent that.

 

[Dogsauce]

Posters here don't seem to get it's wrong to impose their views and ideals upon all. Personally, I'm perfectly happy to accept any loving relationship between anyone, but these parents are not, and that's their choice in their community, so should be respected unless they try to impose their values on other people.

It’s really fucking simple to work this out and can’t understand why you don’t get it, unless this is deliberately playing the ignoramus for attention.

Homosexuality isn’t a view, ideal, belief system or a ‘value. It’s people. A real, tangible thing. Opposing it is opposing people, a refusal to accept their existence/reality. Other people don’t get a right to do this, and need no defending.

Write it on a blackboard fifty times or something and maybe it will sink in.

 

[treelover]

Thing is, how can there ever be real social justice for all, when most people (or a sizable minority) a. take their morals and ethics from an ancient book, and b. think everything will be great after they die.

It's not going away by itself. So what is the answer? How does society best deal with corrupting, regressive forces? Religions are at the heart of patriarchy, justify empires and all manner of cruelties.

What I was posting was moderate, under the circumstances. Look at this shit in Brum, that's religion, right there. Fascism with a pious face.

But fascism with little opposition.

 

[mojo pixy]

opposition is in fact called intolerance, bigotry. whodathunkit.

 

[treelover]

I used to take a similar line. I've mellowed a bit as I've got older, partly due to the realisation that most religious people don't take their religion nearly as seriously as I take it. Fundamentalists take their belief and its implications seriously, but they are in a minority among the religious. For many people it is a rather fuzzy background thing, as much to do with belonging as belief.

they are doing a pretty effective job in Birmingham , stirring it up, I wonder if you would be so sanguine if it was say the EDl.

 

[Humberto]

Like 'the rich should give their money to the poor'. That fascism?

 

[mojo pixy]

that's not religion, that's ethics. that, we need more of.

 

[treelover]

Large package on the issues on Newsnight last night, including interviews with the radical organisation which Newsnight says is helping orchestate the, some appalling language,
One campaigner said relationship lessons due to start in schools in 2020 "proselytise a homosexual way of life".

intimidation of teachers, today Sky has a package where it links the protests to the Operation Trojan events, protests spreading across UK, time for the left, civil society, to get off the fence.

Now an investigation by the BBC Newsnight programme has found letters opposing the lessons have been sent to schools in Birmingham, Bradford, Bristol, Croydon, Ealing, Manchester, Northampton and Nottingham.

The parents who say their kids are being 'indoctrinated' by UK schools

plenty of areas where Urbanites can now go in their locality and express their solidarity

 

[Riklet]

Depressing seeing the videos of this. I really hope that these biggoted religious loonies don't get their way. Seems like theyre organising pretty well on a national level now.

And clearly what with growing islamophobia and muslims endlessly being painted as the 'victims' as a consequence, it becomes harder to argue against these shouty conservative types. Clearly there is less fuss than there would otherwise be due to risk of 'offending'.

Even though we really should be critical - their views and actions are a threat to secular values. And equality. Obviously schools are not secular in the UK like in France, so maybe it's just harder to deal with the me me me offended religious brigade, whatever their backgrounds.

 

[treelover]

Sky News led on it tonight, a very very aggressive protest and outsiders coming en masse, it is bewildering and shaming that the progressive movements are nowhere to be seen, what price solidarity?

remember this is a primary school, ffs..

 

[treelover]

Depressing seeing the videos of this. I really hope that these biggoted religious loonies don't get their way. Seems like theyre organising pretty well on a national level now.

And clearly what with growing islamophobia and muslims endlessly being painted as the 'victims' as a consequence, it becomes harder to argue against these shouty conservative types. Clearly there is less fuss than there would otherwise be due to risk of 'offending'.

Even though we really should be critical - their views and actions are a threat to secular values. And equality. Obviously schools are not secular in the UK like in France, so maybe it's just harder to deal with the me me me offended religious brigade, whatever their backgrounds.

they shouldn't get a pass at all, there are fascists organising amongst them.

 

[SpineyNorman]

they shouldn't get a pass at all, there are fascists organising amongst them.

Wasn't aware of fascist involvement. Any more info on that?

 

[treelover]

I mean the Radical Islamists are basically fascists, i don't think the far right would be there, although it won't be long before they do make some kind of intervention.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Ah right got you, thought you meant fascist in the strict sense. Wouldn't surprise me at all if there were a few involved. They've always been prepared to make surprising alliances.

 

[treelover]

Protests have been taking place outside the school for weeks but the row escalated on Sunday night when local residents clashed with activists who had turned up to display rainbow flags and banners supporting the school’s policy. Police were called to the scene and were stationed outside the school on Monday. Activists claimed they had been threatened and had eggs thrown at them.


One of the LGBT+ rights campaigners, who gave their name as Tracy, told Birmingham Live: “It was awful. I was shaking. We had no intention of disturbing anyone – we were putting up the banners and messages we had made to show solidarity with staff. We wanted them to see something positive when they turned up for work, and to see they had our backing.”




One protester who is opposing the school’s policy was recorded claiming the lessons it was teaching children were “so against the will of God” and “not acceptable in Islam”. He added: “God created man and then he created woman for man’s pleasure and for his companionship.”

Labour MP Jess Phillips in angry confrontation with anti-LGBT+ education protester outside Birmingham school

Police launch investigation after disorder outside school


Altercation today, LGBT, counter protesters say they were abused, had eggs thrown at them, Jess Philips was there calling for an exclusion zone, progressives now at a crossroads...

 

[friendofdorothy]

I'm so sad this is happening 30 years after we fought against section 28. Schools should be inclusive of all their pupils.

Having grown up and being schooled when queer people really were invisible in the 60s and 70s - LGBT students really deserve better now. Edit to add - all students deserve better now.

Keep all religion out of schools I say.

 

[Poot]

I'm so sad this is happening 30 years after we fought against section 28. Schools should be inclusive of all their pupils.

Having grown up and being schooled when queer people really were invisible in the 60s and 70s - LGBT students really deserve better now. Edit to add - all students deserve better now.

Keep all religion out of schools I say.

Did you see Jess Phillips in action FoD? Worth watching just to see something sensible being said to the protesters. I <3 Jess Phillips.

 

[newbie]

This is a bit .... provocative!

A teacher whose lesson programme covering LGBT relationships has been at the centre of recent protests is leading the Birmingham Pride parade.

Andrew Moffat, assistant headteacher at Parkfield Community school, has been teaching No Outsiders classes at the school since 2014.

Have to admire his bravery. Whether his political nous is spot on will remain to be seen.