Parents gather outside Birmingham school to protest against gay teacher

[tim]

East Anglian vicar throws in the dog-collar over primary school children being allowed to self-identity.

Vicar resigns as school imposes transgender policy

 

[8ball]

East Anglian vicar throws in the dog-collar over primary school children being allowed to self-identity.

Vicar resigns as school imposes transgender policy

I can see why you put this here, but
I’m wondering whether this is different enough to the case we were originally discussing to merit being on another thread.

 

[friedaweed]

I can see why you put this here, but
I’m wondering whether this is different enough to the case we were originally discussing to merit being on another thread.

It's an interesting aside all the same.

I found the mermaid training recording very interesting especially the tension at the end during question time.

 

[cybershot]

Has the original school got one of these as well?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I can see why you put this here, but
I’m wondering whether this is different enough to the case we were originally discussing to merit being on another thread.

Either way he sounds like a twat. Yeah, let's target kids at their most vulnerable part of their lives and consequently make their lives hell.

xtian concern is quoted so it is automatically suspect...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Details of that trans case appear to be coming from the Christian Legal Centre. Regardless of anything else, they are a bunch of total cunts. The end of the recording is interesting - Mermaids woman not interested in engaging beyond 'what about intersex children?' as if that's a killer blow point. Mermaids also has objectionable (to me) views, such as (what I consider to be) the damaging nonsense that is the idea that we are all on a 'gender spectrum'. They have a degree of certainty about this stuff that is not warranted. So it's a clash of two rather unpleasant dogmas.

I agree with 8ball though. Perhaps the subject of a different thread.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

they are a bunch of total cunts

This. They are utter bigoted cunts.

 

[friedaweed]

So it's a clash of two rather unpleasant dogmas.

Yup.

 

[treelover]

Exclusion zone for protests around school from Monday.

hasn't been liberal/left/civil society's finest hour, threw teachers under the bus, etc.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Either way he sounds like a twat. Yeah, let's target kids at their most vulnerable part of their lives and consequently make their lives hell.

xtian concern is quoted so it is automatically suspect...

The only people targeting vulnerable children in this story are this Mermaid organisation. It's grooming, plain and simple.

 

[Dandred]

I don't really care about religion, if you want to follow a book written by a bunch of dessert dwellers from hundreds of years ago, fuck you. Let people be people. There is no god, it's just a man made construct.

 

[8ball]

It's an interesting aside all the same.

I found the mermaid training recording very interesting especially the tension at the end during question time.

That’s a really interesting recording - thanks for posting that.

I think the speaker/trainer knew the material really well but it did go wonky with the questions at the end.

With regard to the Christian man right at the beginning of questions, talking about freedom of expression - she could have just have asked exactly which things were restricting that ie. what could he have said before that he cannot say now - that might have led somewhere interesting.

 

[tim]

I don't really care about religion, if you want to follow a book written by a bunch of dessert dwellers from hundreds of years ago, fuck you. Let people be people. There is no god, it's just a man made construct.

If you really don't care why bother posting? Don't you really want to put the boot into what you perceive as an easy target? To me you comnent comes across as crassly Orientalist.

As regards the books, neither the fundamentalists nor you (admittedly your own admission) read them seriously. Non-white people living in deserts,neven thousands of years ago, were more sophisticated than you assume. They weren't written to be taken as literally as both you and the fundies think. Try reading them reflectively and critically, and you might get something out of them.

 

[A380]

If you really don't care why bother posting? Don't you really want to put the boot into what you perceive as an easy target? To me you comnent comes across as crassly Orientalist.

As regards the books, neither the fundamentalists nor you (admittedly your own admission) read them seriously. Non-white people living in deserts,neven thousands of years ago, were more sophisticated than you assume. They weren't written to be taken as literally as both you and the fundies think. Try reading them reflectively and critically, and you might get something out of them.

Actually I think one of the three is supposed to be the actual and literal word of god as dictated...

 

[tim]

Actually I think one of the three is supposed to be the actual and literal word of god as dictated...

Supposed is probably the appropriate term, it certainly wasn't collated until well after the Darth or even the death of Mohammed. Anyway I've just spent £36 on a big critical edition recommend by various non-muslim worthies and Karen Armstrong. So in the next few weeks I shall start reading and reflecting.

 

[Celyn]

I don't really care about religion, if you want to follow a book written by a bunch of dessert dwellers from hundreds of years ago ...

I suppose the proof is in the pudding.

 

[treelover]

Will the Birmingham contingent of the TRUMP! protests be making a detour to Anderton School, the bigotry there is as odious as anything Trump has said.

 

[cybershot]

MP reported over LGBT school protest support

 

[farmerbarleymow]

This might be of interest to some - the National Secular Society is hosting a lecture at Manchester Art Gallery on 7 September by Andrew Moffat.

Bradlaugh Lecture 2019 | No Outsiders: Reclaiming Radical Ideas in Schools

 

[elbows]

The equality teaching is to return to that school, with some modifications that are unknown to me at this time.

Equality programme to return at LGBT row school

 

[Lurdan]

On June 25th Roger Godsiff, the local MP who sided with the protestors, led an adjournment debate in Parliament on the subject of "Parental Involvement in Teaching: Equality Act". Hansard report of the debate here - I found it quite interesting.

Named in the debate as amongst those instigating the activism underlying the protests were psychologist Kate Godfrey-Faussett of the Stop RSE campaign and Ustadh Aziz Torofdar of Islamic RSE which has published a number of guides for 'concerned' parents.

In his opening speech Godsiff criticised the schools for failing to adequately consult and declined to address the behaviour of some of the protestors and their 'allies'. His viewpoint was strongly challenged by others, but Nick Gibb, responding for the Government, agreed with Godsiff that the onus was on schools to engage in "constructive dialogue" and in saying

The Department strongly encourages primary schools to teach about families with same-sex parents. In most cases that will be possible (...)

seemed to leave open the possibility that in other cases where the issue was "sensitive" it might not be possible.

Godsiff has of course been strongly criticised. The following day he resigned from the Charlton Athletic Trust over the issue.

 

[Poi E]

Named in the debate as amongst those instigating the activism underlying the protests were psychologist Kate Godfrey-Faussett of the Stop RSE campaign .

She of the ridiculous middle class surname said "That boils down to a form of indoctrination and erosion on our religious rights as Muslims, Christians and Jews to bring up our children in line with our beliefs and values."

i.e. our right to do whatever the fuck we want to children. What an autocratic mindset.

 

[likesfish]

That's an American idea where children are in sole charge of their parents rather than the "state controlling them"

Rather than the idea that they are human with rights and wishes of their own.

In the States a child can't for example get vaccinatinated without their parents consent.
Pretty sure here social services would support a kid who wanted vaccines

 

[scifisam]

That's an American idea where children are in sole charge of their parents rather than the "state controlling them"

Rather than the idea that they are human with rights and wishes of their own.

In the States a child can't for example get vaccinatinated without their parents consent.
Pretty sure here social services would support a kid who wanted vaccines

It's not really relevant for most vaccines, because they are usually given way earlier than a child could reasonably give informed consent, but yeah, kids here do have the ability to make some life choices about their medical care that kids in the US don't.

HPV vaccine for adolescents aged 12 to 13 years old | nidirect

The key part:

It is important to note that if your child is between 12 and 16 years of age, the final decision to have the vaccine is legally your child’s as long as he or she understands the issues in giving consent.

Social services wouldn't need to be involved, just the child and their doctor or nurse.

The same applies to some other medical choices when the child is over 12, roughly (it varies), so for meningitis, for example, I think a child could get a vaccine withou

It is a very American idea, you're right. I'm sure it exists elsewhere but it's really strong there.

 

[Ranbay]

I mean broadcast news, if this was a far right group outside a school it would be everywhere.

Havent seen anything else about this since you posted this in Feb, shame

 

[spanglechick]

It's not really relevant for most vaccines, because they are usually given way earlier than a child could reasonably give informed consent, but yeah, kids here do have the ability to make some life choices about their medical care that kids in the US don't.

HPV vaccine for adolescents aged 12 to 13 years old | nidirect

The key part:

It is important to note that if your child is between 12 and 16 years of age, the final decision to have the vaccine is legally your child’s as long as he or she understands the issues in giving consent.

Social services wouldn't need to be involved, just the child and their doctor or nurse.

The same applies to some other medical choices when the child is over 12, roughly (it varies), so for meningitis, for example, I think a child could get a vaccine withou

It is a very American idea, you're right. I'm sure it exists elsewhere but it's really strong there.

Gillick competency.

Minors are judged to consent to medical treatment without parental consent, if they are believed to understand the pros and cons. Most often comes up when allowing girls access to reproductive healthcare.

 

[alex_]

That's an American idea where children are in sole charge of their parents rather than the "state controlling them"

Rather than the idea that they are human with rights and wishes of their own.

In the States a child can't for example get vaccinatinated without their parents consent.
Pretty sure here social services would support a kid who wanted vaccines

Sort of interesting that they are quite anti parents making decisions when the kid is in the womb but pro parents making the decision when they are out of the womb.

Alex

 

[Gaia]

She of the ridiculous middle class surname said "That boils down to a form of indoctrination and erosion on our religious rights as Muslims, Christians and Jews to bring up our children in line with our beliefs and values."

i.e. our right to do whatever the fuck we want to children. What an autocratic mindset.

I'm of the mindset that the religious indoctrination of children is abuse. You raise them to believe that being anything other than straight is evil, they find out that they're gay/bi/trans, and then what fucking happens…? These twats need to be reminded of what 'freedom of religion' actually means; it means that you, personally, have the right to believe whatever bollocks you want to believe, what it does NOT mean is that you have the right to force anyone else - including your own children - to believe aforementioned said bollocks.

LGBTQIA+ kids from religious families are overwhelmingly likely to suffer from mental health problems arising from their upbringing, and are also far more likely to end their lives. I try not to get involved in these debates but, as someone who doesn't identify as straight (or gay, bi, or trans, some days I wonder if I even identify as human), seeing those kids outside their school carrying placards they almost certainly did not write of their own volition (some of the kids I saw on the Beeb were too young to understand what they were protesting against).

Religion is the cause of, if not all the evil in the world, then a very, very, large percentage of it.

 

[Southlondon]

I'm of the mindset that the religious indoctrination of children is abuse. You raise them to believe that being anything other than straight is evil, they find out that they're gay/bi/trans, and then what fucking happens…? These twats need to be reminded of what 'freedom of religion' actually means; it means that you, personally, have the right to believe whatever bollocks you want to believe, what it does NOT mean is that you have the right to force anyone else - including your own children - to believe aforementioned said bollocks.

LGBTQIA+ kids from religious families are overwhelmingly likely to suffer from mental health problems arising from their upbringing, and are also far more likely to end their lives. I try not to get involved in these debates but, as someone who doesn't identify as straight (or gay, bi, or trans, some days I wonder if I even identify as human), seeing those kids outside their school carrying placards they almost certainly did not write of their own volition (some of the kids I saw on the Beeb were too young to understand what they were protesting against).

Religion is the cause of, if not all the evil in the world, then a very, very, large percentage of it.

Suicide rates amongst lgbtq youths is several times higher than amongst heterosexual youths. Surely this is enough to say factual education should trump anyone’s spiritual or superstitious beliefs for all kids at school. I totally agree with your point that indoctrinating children with hate backed up by spurious texts claiming to be the word of some imaginary superior being who encourages the hate of and even the persecution of such minorities should be treated as child abuse, and social services should be proactive in assessing the safety of these kids if left in the family environment.
Will we be pandering to the religious bigots when they follow their American cohorts on dena gong creationism is taught in schools instead of evolution?

 

[SpookyFrank]

She of the ridiculous middle class surname said "That boils down to a form of indoctrination and erosion on our religious rights as Muslims, Christians and Jews to bring up our children in line with our beliefs and values."

i.e. our right to do whatever the fuck we want to children. What an autocratic mindset.

It's fucking bonkers when religious people complain about indoctrinating children. What they're really mad about is their monopoly on indoctrination being challenged.