P&O Ferries sacks workers and docks ships
- Thread starter wemakeyousoundb
- Start date
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Most of what you've written above is nonsense, especially the last sentence. But this is urban75 and insulting each other is what we do. I receive many more insults than I hand out so you are not going to succeed in your attempt to make me feel guilty about making some trivial comments.
That said, saying that I think what someone has written is stupid or a waste of time is not really an insult, it's just a statement of opinion.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, it was actually the silly question about speeding rules that was one of the parts of that exchange that made me roll my eyes the most.
What does anyone expect him to answer? Yes, he regularly breaks speeding rules when he can get away with it? Of course his only option is to shake his head sheepishly.
Part of the reason it was a stupid question for his interlocutor to ask is that breaking speeding rules is actually an example of something lots of people do every day, because they have calculated that they are happy to take the small risk of getting some points on their license in exchange for getting to their destination 30 seconds earlier.
In other words all he did was provide an example of calculated rule-breaking that many "ordinary" people can relate to, which somewhat defeated the purpose of his moralistic line of questioning.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
By the way, in response to the questions about why can't we talk about the raw economics and also point out the disparity in pay between management and workers, well, I never actually said we couldn't, and I also agree that a few pointed questions might be helpful in setting a context in which people can view things like whether they support union action or legislative change or whatever. But it's the above stupid question that I was initially responding to - which I maintain is a stupid question. Everyone knows why he hasn't sacked himself.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
On phone, so I'll limit myself to a short comment: BOLLOCKS.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Did see a big red flag in Liverpool today with a weird form of hammer and sickle I'd never seen before, was trying to think if that was likely to be the poster you'd encountered but I've now looked it up and learned that Juche is hammer, sickle, and brush, whereas this thing was like hammer and sickle but not crossing over each other, just arranged vaguely near each other?
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Either Hammer Or Sickle But Never Both Together sounds like a particularly proscriptive maxim
Magnus McGinty
š
Theyāve now taken on foreign labour at bargain basement prices so stop your whingeing. Unless you think that wasnāt happening under the EU and actually the purpose of it?
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Neither Hammer nor Sickle but Brush 111
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
RMT planning to blockade Cairnryan on April 8th:
www.heraldscotland.com
Announced at the Alba conference, apparently? 
Union plans Cairnryan port blockade to protest over P&O sackings
The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union is planning to blockade the Cairnryan port to protest over the sacking of hundreds of staff by P&O,ā¦
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Is this a new cheese/beans debate. When designing a revolutionary standard (stained or not with hearts' blood) do you put the hammer or the sickle on first?
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Strong words from Shapps, with promises that measures will be put to parliament before the Easter break starts on Friday. 
P&O Ferries given deadline to reemploy sacked workers
Grant Shapps says the firm has "one final opportunity" to bring sacked staff back on previous wages.
www.bbc.co.uk
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
Forcing his resignation (with a big golden handshake, no doubt) would be a convenient way to dodge prosecuting the company. I hope he sticks to his guns. The whole board, owners and counsel have misread the public mood somewhat.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Magnus McGinty
š
They were obviously in trouble hence the pretty daft manoeuvre of laying everyone off. I'm trying to avoid puns here so given the importance of sea freight I'm guessing nationalisation may be the Govt's only option in the here and now?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Nah, they carry loads of freight.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
It does seem that the decision was taken by someone who knows nothing about ship operations..maybe they kept it secret from the ship technical management side of the business.
Ship safety management systems have a lot on the induction of new staff onto ships. Dover-Calais is a very difficult route as you come out of Dover outer harbour at 14kts into the busiest shipping lane in the world, at right angles to the traffic separation zone. (Iāve done it on a bridge simulator at a nautical school) Itās a job to learn from experienced master mariners, not something you can put a bridge management team where no one has done the route before. I assume the captains also need pilot exemptions for both ports.
I understand the crews currently work 2 weeks on-2 weeks off. Crews from further afield may be on 9 month contracts. Short Ro-pax is an exhausting trade. Iām sure cumulative fatigue will be an issue for crews recruited globally (the officers may well come from places like Ukraine, and be on shorter rotations, but the point holds)
Iād rather not use these ferries for couple of years until the new staff are up to speed.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Strong words from Shapps, with promises that measures will be put to parliament before the Easter break starts on Friday.
View attachment 316223View attachment 316224
P&O Ferries given deadline to reemploy sacked workers
Grant Shapps says the firm has "one final opportunity" to bring sacked staff back on previous wages.www.bbc.co.uk
āDear Peterā
Bit fucking cosy.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Itās the starkest example of the genre, their staff load, sail and stewed ships. Their staff did that and there were no issues with their work. The management were handsomely rewarded for managing the business yet it was losing money hand over fist. Clear as day the management failed in their jobs and think that by saving three or four pounds an hour on the coal face staff will cover up for their ineptitude.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
P&O: Second ferry detained over safety concerns
The Maritime and Coastguard Agency held the Pride of Kent after it failed a safety inspection.
www.bbc.co.uk
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
So, the Government are unable to prosecute P&O ferries due to an EU Directive (bitterly ironic, given earlier attempts by Remain cranks to claim Brexit was to blame for the actions of P&O bosses) that removes the need for shipping companies to notify the Secretary of State and merely requires them to notify the country where the vessel is registered (which P&O didnāt bother doing either but I canāt see Bermuda being all that bothered).
P&O have already told Shapps that theyāll be ignoring his demand for reinstatement:
www.thetimes.co.uk
Workers face a choice of either acquiescing to the enhanced redundancy package, and thereby signing away their legal rights to go to ET, or risking it all at an ET.
This is the neo-feudal employment framework that Thatcher always longed for now fully visible. Every route to access to justice for workers closed off or too expensive to pursue.
P&O have already told Shapps that theyāll be ignoring his demand for reinstatement:
Defiant P&O Ferries chief refuses to rehire sacked workers or quit
The boss of P&O Ferries has said he will not resign or rehire dismissed crew, despite two of the companyās vessels being impounded over safety concerns.Peter
www.thetimes.co.uk
Workers face a choice of either acquiescing to the enhanced redundancy package, and thereby signing away their legal rights to go to ET, or risking it all at an ET.
This is the neo-feudal employment framework that Thatcher always longed for now fully visible. Every route to access to justice for workers closed off or too expensive to pursue.
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Showing that re-arranging a state's trading arrangements within the neoliberal context was always only that. Taking back control; my arse.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I realise itās hard for you to understand anything without refracting it through the prism of the defeat of project remain. And, no doubt if this EU directive had been dumped youād have been among the first to be complaining about it.
But, the main point here is the neo-feudal order thatās what left of the organised working class is confronted by after 45 years of consistent anti-working class and anti-trade union activity. As Sharon Graham put it recently the task we face is to rebuild working class power āThe trade union movement is in a critical place. The flame flickers, but we cannot escape the reality. Unions are simply not present in many service industries and in some cases remain wedded to out-of-date structures that play into the bossesā hands. Outside of the workplace, many comrades remain singularly enthralled to the restoration of a political project that has no realistic road map for revival.
Speaking plainly, it is time to face facts. There is no Westminster hero coming to save us. We must do it ourselves, before it is too late. Specifically, we must build popular, working-class power.
To that end, it is important that we remember that the progressive left is more than Parliament, and more than the leadership of one party. It can sometimes look as though we have forgotten that fact ā forgotten that there was a time before Corbyn, and that the parliamentary road also has its limits; forgotten that while state power in one country is very important, on its own, in a global world facing climate catastrophe, it is also wildly insufficientā.
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