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Overcrowding and the death of dancing

I just read this article by Trevino/Marcus Intalex (didn't know they were one and the same!) and this stood out:

Intalex isn’t a complete novice in the world of house, as he started out DJing Chicago sounds and Detroit techno after a game-changing night in Manchester. ‘I went to see New Order in ‘87 at the Hacienda,’ he explains. ‘The gig was alright, nothing special, but what happened after the gig was. The band went off the stage and this fucking music came out of the speakers: I couldn’t even see the DJ; the music was mad futuristic and that one experience pretty much changed my life.’

I remembered this thread, and the talk about not knowing what the DJs looked like, and then I realised I was "watching" Ben Klock DJ, right now, on the telly (YouTube) and it made me sad.

I wish I didn't know what any DJs looked like.
 
Another thing that occurs to me about this (maybe linked in with the drug use) is that it seems to me that less places have a proper chillout area these days. It always used to be that you'd wander back and forth between the dancefloor and the chillout area and having a lot of people in that space meant there was space on the dancefloor when you wanted to dance.
 
Another thing that occurs to me about this (maybe linked in with the drug use) is that it seems to me that less places have a proper chillout area these days. It always used to be that you'd wander back and forth between the dancefloor and the chillout area and having a lot of people in that space meant there was space on the dancefloor when you wanted to dance.
...related to that i think is this post by Ali from another forum - i think the bit about smoking is relevant


I think that this was a really thought provoking thread. Having had nearly a week to contemplate it and read thru the other opinions I am kinda inclined towards supporting the previously mentioned theories - musical styles have changed, the new drugs of the 21st Century are about being mega wasted and are more sedating/less love inducing and don't create an atmosphere of community and solidarity upon the dancefloor, the Facebook Era means that many people are too uptight about being photographed looking silly to get free and let rip with some moves, dancing is an artfom as well as something we all do for fun, inhibition can kill a dancefloor as well as the wrong vibes. The cult of the DJ, I'm not sure people do take it seriously anymore other than, "I like this DJ, they play things I like so I go where they go cos I like the tunes they play, everytime."

Anyway, the only thing that noone else has mentioned that I think is of note is this: The SMOKING BAN IN CLUBS!

We now have a society where much of the socialising in a music venue happens away from the music - outside, maybe under a patio heater. Even people who do not smoke often find they have to choose between hanging on the dancefloor alone or with their smoking friends. Smoking is evil but it did have an upside in clubs, it created a dirty haze to hide behind helping people feel more hidden away, it literally created a smokescreen to get lost in, it covered up (with another grim scent) the vileness that is the smell of sweating, drunken, stale people and halitosis that generally repels rather than invites cameraderie.

These things add up to a situation whereby there is no way that clubs can get the same dancefloor atmosphere going, unless you have a massive crowd of confident, non smoking, sweet smelling peeps who turn up with no inhibitions and come only to dance - this is not most punters, this is the mindset of jazz dancers, street dancers, B boys people for whom the dance IS the reason to go out but most folk, they go for something to do, to hang with their mates, because it's better than staying in and watching X factor and so feeling full of hang ups, being scared that everyone is looking at you, not having the waves of love and brotherhood pumping thru the air from what essentially is a shift thru semi hallucinogenic drugs creating a sense of unity and free from judgement- no, that will never create the kind of dancefloor that we used to have but as long as there are DJs who play music to dance to and people who can't help but bust a move when the beats move them to, I don't think dancing will ever die, no.:
 
Good post, and dancing at festivals is definately not dead. Although the dance floors are much more choppy
 
I wonder if camera/facebook thing has merit. One of the most popular clubs in the world for the past few years has been Berghain in Berlin, and its reputation is like no other club around these days. Oh, did I mention they ban cameras from the club completely. Coincidence? :confused:
 
I wonder if camera/facebook thing has merit. One of the most popular clubs in the world for the past few years has been Berghain in Berlin, and its reputation is like no other club around these days. Oh, did I mention they ban cameras from the club completely. Coincidence? :confused:
how does that ban work in practice Fez? is it a case of a couple of signs up and people respect it or what? just wondering how the culture might spread
 
The turning point for me was the dance tent at Glastonbury in (I think) 97? after enjoying dancing like a loon to the likes of Bandulu, Daft Punk came on and the place became totally rammed, I remember getting annoyed that everyone appeared to be facing the stage. It became a rock concert so I fucked off.

If i'm out these days (a rare event) I'll always face the opposite direction to the DJ booth, shame I don't still have my Faceless Techno Bollocks t-shirt.
 
how does that ban work in practice Fez? is it a case of a couple of signs up and people respect it or what? just wondering how the culture might spread
They confiscate them on the door. They wanted to take my phone off me as it had a camera on it but they let me keep it if I promised not to take pictures.

If you're seen taking pictures you would be kicked out I reckon. Go on youtube and look at some videos from there and the comments are full of people saying they're ruining the club by putting pictures up. The ban seems to have strong support.
 
They confiscate them on the door.
fucking hell i wasnt expecting that. Hardline! Love it. The problem is it is handy to take a phone out with you to meet up with people and the like, and taking peoples phones off them at the door would be a logistical headache im sure with phones getting lost and so on. Looks like the Berliners can handle that though!

I think it wouldnt take much to make picture taking a faux-pax, and just culturally frowned upon. I used to be so anti-it, always running from cameras always tutting very loudy :D but ive been worn down, they're so common. I was still spitting blood when THREE people within my eyesight kept checking their emails/generally playing with their phones throughout the My Bloody Valentine gig a couple of months back. And a sea of people with their phones in the air filming something still gets my blood pressure up, but on the whole i've come to accept thats the way it is.

I think if flyers say "no photography" on them, and a few signs up, maybe with a couple of big names backing a campaign to stop it it could be cut back a lot. Im hoping this is all just a new technology fad and things will correct themselves soon...wishful thinking but hey
 
I wonder if camera/facebook thing has merit. One of the most popular clubs in the world for the past few years has been Berghain in Berlin, and its reputation is like no other club around these days. Oh, did I mention they ban cameras from the club completely. Coincidence? :confused:

That could be a good idea but from what I hear they're also into that 'we're so cool' arbitrary refusal of admission thing which puts me right off the idea of the place (and not only because they probably wouldn't let me in).
 
there are a couple of pics of the venue online (i looked!) and it looks like a massive space....
Im not into discriminating against who comes in to a club, but being stricter on numbers is definitely good, and also trying to build up a crowd of regulars, with tickets going first to members and such - actually makes it like a Club IYSWIM

although it wasnt my scene I went to tech-house night Heart and Soul/Wiggle a couple of times and it was clear it was a like a family there, with lots of the crowd coming to know one another from regular visits. Im sure there are lots of other exampels. Promoters can work to make that happen...
 
I don't see how you can ban photography in this age of camera phones. It's just not really enforceable.
While I don;t want grim late night bad photos of me all over Facebook, if I'd gone out for my birthday or something, I would hope for one or two decent(ish) photos of us at the bar or something at the beginning of the night. Just nice to have something, memories and the like.I'd find it a bit arrogant if I was told "NO" to that.
Really the problem is more with FB and splurging photos everywhere and the likes, but that's for another thread.
 
Clearly its is possible, you just need a hardline Berliner attitude! We lived without photos in the past we can live without them now. If I knew a club had a no photo policy it would definitley appeal to me.

I think the photo thing isnt the biggest problem, but at its extreme creates a psychological shift of people as spectators and documenters rather than participants. Particularly at gigs. Someone standing still in the middle of a dancefloor trying to film a bit of a set on their phone just kills the energy and vibe i think. Maybe it says more about the way my brain works but i find it sacrilegious!
 
They do have a really selective door policy but it's as you said, ska: they want the place full of regulars, not tourists.

Also the camera thing is not primarily about creating at atmosphere, it's about protecting the privacy of the people there as it has a reputation for being a bit wild, with loads of gay sex going on openly, etc, although I didn't see anything like that. But by creating this private space where "anything goes" then of course you are going to create a certain atmosphere; one which encourages dancing, aye :cool:
 
I don't see how you can ban photography in this age of camera phones. It's just not really enforceable.
While I don;t want grim late night bad photos of me all over Facebook, if I'd gone out for my birthday or something, I would hope for one or two decent(ish) photos of us at the bar or something at the beginning of the night. Just nice to have something, memories and the like.I'd find it a bit arrogant if I was told "NO" to that.
Really the problem is more with FB and splurging photos everywhere and the likes, but that's for another thread.

It's not arrogant if you know in advance and make your decision to go or not, in full knowledge.

"ROAR" ;)
 
The smoking thing is a very good point Ska. You can't get your groove on, if you have to keep nipping out. And if your mates are outside, you get into a conversation, and then you bump into someone else and then ......, etc

There was nothing like breathing that smoky haze out, letting it drift out over the lasers....
 
To be fair I dont see that many people taking photos in nightclubs. Its usually too dark. But then maybe it depends which clubs you go to.
 
I wonder if camera/facebook thing has merit. One of the most popular clubs in the world for the past few years has been Berghain in Berlin, and its reputation is like no other club around these days. Oh, did I mention they ban cameras from the club completely. Coincidence? :confused:

In my experience this has a massive influence, especially amongst girls. There's not one person in the world who looks photogenic whilst on pills and dancing like a loon, we all look like red faced gurning idiots. As we should be.

I think part of this is that house nights nowadays are places to be seen, full of hipsters. You only have to take a look at the boat party's at Hideout etc to see the vanity in it all.
 
Good to see Richard Godwin (the token soft-lefty at the evening standard) include this in a column

Rally to iPhone-hating Savages

The band Savages recently issued an edict to their fans: “WE BELIEVE THE USE OF PHONES TO FILM AND TAKE PICTURES DURING A GIG PREVENTS ALL OF US FROM TOTALLY IMMERSING OURSELVES”. They follow the iPhone-hating Yeah Yeah Yeahs, who last month told fans to “put that shit away”.

The pale glow of smartphones has become a feature of pop concerts, as a new generation of fans seems to value the proof of having been there over the actual live experience. Let’s say you go to the National Theatre to watch Othello, and the person in front spends the performance waving their iPhone aloft. That would be really annoying, and diminish the shared experience between performers and audience. It would also break intellectual property laws for the meagre reward of a poor-quality video.

Now let’s say you go to the O2 to watch Beyoncé and the person in front does the same. What, essentially, is the difference?

---

Heres hoping the anti-phone thing gets some wind behind it - its more of a problem at live gigs than it is at clubs but just as shit at both. Its new technology so it can take a little time for cultural norms to settle in.
 
Sorry if this has already been said but the last couple of times I have been to a great London Acid Techno line up night at Jamm it's been impossible to dance properly in the main room.
And even when it was freezing out side it was unbearably hot and humid inside.
The other room, which is much bigger, where they have the non headline acts and the main bar is always pretty empty.
I don't know why they don't switch the rooms round :hmm:
 
Sorry if this has already been said but the last couple of times I have been to a great London Acid Techno line up night at Jamm it's been impossible to dance properly in the main room.
And even when it was freezing out side it was unbearably hot and humid inside.
The other room, which is much bigger, where they have the non headline acts and the main bar is always pretty empty.
I don't know why they don't switch the rooms round :hmm:
yeah jamm is messed up on this front - the official max capacity is about 300 at a guess, but those people all end up in the smaller main room.

(i moaned just this earlier in the thread ;))
 
Cameras/photos have NO place in nightclubs.
check the bottom of this recent Shaka flyer :cool:
969177_10151594671737159_356437817_n.jpg

£20 is steep but im going to have to go one of these days...havent heard shaka play in years
 
I used to push to the front at gigs. Now I hang back to dance. At the back is where its at maan!
 
This is a dancing thread, not a moshing thread. :mad:

It's a shame there isn't an "overcrowding and the death of moshing" thread :(
 
reminds me of the time moshing broke out at the DnB sound at Carnival - much to the annoyance of the djs and mc, who treid several times to stop ("this is a rave not a punk gig")
It was quite rammed at the time....i get the feeling overcrowding and moshing go together quite well.
 
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