Outrage as Tory MP claims she felt threatened by 'thug gang' of campaigning OAPs and disabled people

[Libertad]

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

Post reported you gutworm.

 

[NoXion]

because the crisis loans system was being misused ?

Prove it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

epidemiological points - people who try to claim ESA are likely to have health problems and believe ( or have been told by others who aren;t clinically qualified) that these are so serious they cannot work at all ...

The majority of people claiming ESA are former claimants of Incapacity Benefit. The standard of proof for a long-term IB claim was quite high, including providing consultant opinions and being subjected to a medical assessment by doctors (not lumpen "healthcare professionals" or superannuated nurses) who then decided that the claimant wasn't able to work. Your "epidemiological points" are based on a mis-perception of the strength of claims.

interestingly the left only seems to want to see those who are fit to work and those who are unfit to work , rather than the various gradiations and grey areas that both the welfare system and Occupational health deal with .

You constantly fart on about "the left", which implies that you're either to the right of what is conventionally seen as left, or are simply intellectually unequipped to realise that "left" is a spectrum, not a bloc.

ESA claimaints it's a self selecting group where the morbidity and mortality is likely to be higher than the population in general -.

"Is likely" is semantic blancmange. If you can't quantify, then don't bother.

this is before we look at health beliefs stuff

Health beliefs are matters for psychologists, not for superannuated nurses.

the way the left's party line is worded you'd think no one in work every drops down dead with a heart attack / stroke / undiagnosed other serious problem

What "party line" is this, or does it only exist in your head?

 

[ViolentPanda]

ah personal attacks

and the usual fallacy that people are either fit or not fit ... funny how real occupational health practice and the benefit system recognises that there is a rangfe of different answers to the question of fitness for work ...

The benefits system may well recognise the fact of a spectrum of ability to work - in fact it's in their advantage to, in terms of claim reduction. What they don't do is meaningfully acknowledge that fact legislatively or in any way that assists people on that spectrum to work. We've seen lip service via "disability advisors" in JC+ (most of which positions are currently being withdrawn), but nothing that feeds into employment legislation.
Knocking people off of a benefit without assisting them to find alternative income sources consonant with their medical issues, is morally reprehensible, and yet this is exactly what's happening, and exactly what is contributing to suicides and self-harm.

 

[ViolentPanda]

as we are playing personal attacks - you appear to have a difficulty in distingusihing between sympathy and empathy

as for empowerment and resilience, these are anaethema to the left , as they mean people question the truth and hacts passed from the Party ... same as the left;s attack on Grammar schools and their confusion of equity and equality of opportunity ( aka it's equal if we pull all the ladders up far enough and then when the faithful question that ofer them some crumbs if they are ideologically sound )

Politically, you're a bit challenged, aren't you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's quite a jumble of stuff in this post, I can't quite work it out tbh

He parps out loads of stuff about "the left", most of which seems to be attributions of his issue-of-the-month to perfidious nanny-state socialism - as if it has actually existed for the last 30 years.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The benefits system may well recognise the fact of a spectrum of ability to work - in fact it's in their advantage to, in terms of claim reduction. What they don't do is meaningfully acknowledge that fact legislatively or in any way that assists people on that spectrum to work. We've seen lip service via "disability advisors" in JC+ (most of which positions are currently being withdrawn), but nothing that feeds into employment legislation.
Knocking people off of a benefit without assisting them to find alternative income sources consonant with their medical issues, is morally reprehensible, and yet this is exactly what's happening, and exactly what is contributing to suicides and self-harm.

It seems from where I'm sitting that it's the benefits system that is getting more binary in approach - the DWP line seems to be "if you're not completely unfit to do anything, all of the time, fuck off"

At the same time as employers increasingly take the line "if you're not completely fit to do everything, or might possibly be ill at any point in the future, fuck off"

 

[equationgirl]

It seems from where I'm sitting that it's the benefits system that is getting more binary in approach - the DWP line seems to be "if you're not completely unfit to do anything, all of the time, fuck off"

At the same time as employers increasingly take the line "if you're not completely fit to do everything, or might possibly be ill at any point in the future, fuck off"

I would actually say that the DWP line is 'if you're not a cold, dead, maggoty corpse, fuck off'.

 

[Lazy Fare]

If employers have got interns willing to work for free they're hardly going to be interested in people with mental health issues.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I would actually say that the DWP line is 'if you're not a cold, dead, maggoty corpse, fuck off'.

and i think they stop your benefits if they suspect you of being dead...

 

[Nylock]

so in otherwords tit canlt actually be proven, despite the way in HM coroner are well known for laying in all and sundry when responsibility could be apportioned ...

Give that another go you futile wanker.

 

[Nylock]

just telling it how it is based on nearly 2 decades in frontline healthcare ...

Bullshit. Proof or STFU.

 

[equationgirl]

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

Have reported your odious and offensive post.

 

[Nylock]

as we are playing personal attacks - you appear to have a difficulty in distingusihing between sympathy and empathy

as for empowerment and resilience, these are anaethema to the left , as they mean people question the truth and hacts passed from the Party ... same as the left;s attack on Grammar schools and their confusion of equity and equality of opportunity ( aka it's equal if we pull all the ladders up far enough and then when the faithful question that ofer them some crumbs if they are ideologically sound )

Unlike your full-frontal assault on grammar in general? FFS if you're going to continue to post up disingenuous bullshit, at least go to the effort of proofreading your tirades first.

 

[Favelado]

as we are playing personal attacks - you appear to have a difficulty in distingusihing between sympathy and empathy

as for empowerment and resilience, these are anaethema to the left , as they mean people question the truth and hacts passed from the Party ... same as the left;s attack on Grammar schools and their confusion of equity and equality of opportunity ( aka it's equal if we pull all the ladders up far enough and then when the faithful question that ofer them some crumbs if they are ideologically sound )

What would you say the right have done for equality of opportunity in the past 30 years?

 

[Wilf]

Narrative verdicts ? as if it was such a major preciptating factor as the la-la land magic money tree lefties keep claiming it is, surely there would be at least a couple of dozen narrative verdicts or coroner's recorded comments making such a link ...

on. Phone and having significant neuro problems so it's hard typing. I'll persevere though in order to caall you a cunt.

 

[toggle]

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

and this is your tactic of choice today, to limit the acceptable evidence to a point decided by you and you alone.

I could post up the newspaper reports of someone who died after not getting medical treatment after having a heart attack during the assessment. or those with mental and physical illness who committed suicide after a refusal of benefits, or a blatantly unlawful sanction.

how about the people found unfit for work by outsourced atos ocupational health and were laid off, found fit for work by atos assessoirs working for the dwp therfore denied esa, and considered unfit to search for work by the job center and therefore denied jsa.

but you demand the evidence you've chosen as the only acceptable form.

while deriding the people left mourning.

you're a cunt

 

[zippyRN]

What would you say the right have done for equality of opportunity in the past 30 years?

considering that 13 of those glorious years were under Labour...

and that there is no sensible 'right' party in the UK - the Conservative party being right of centre rather than genuine right ... the problem is a genuine right party would be too radical in the UK ( or much of europe) as the british are relucantant to let people fall by the wayside int othe gutters and trailer parks as seen in the US

GM schools were a step in the right direction , as was the assisted places scheme , CTCs etc ... ctcs and GM schools being 'ideologically rehabilitated' in crony labourite versions as Academies of course .

equality of opportunity is not the aim , equity of opportunity is ...

the illusion of equality of opportunity has led to selection by house price rather than selection on ability / potential in educatiopn

 

[Favelado]

considering that 13 of those glorious years were under Labour...

and that there is no sensible 'right' party in the UK - the Conservative party being right of centre rather than genuine right ... the problem is a genuine right party would be too radical in the UK ( or much of europe) as the british are relucantant to let people fall by the wayside int othe gutters and trailer parks as seen in the US

GM schools were a step in the right direction , as was the assisted places scheme , CTCs etc ... ctcs and GM schools being 'ideologically rehabilitated' in crony labourite versions as Academies of course .

equality of opportunity is not the aim , equity of opportunity is ...

the illusion of equality of opportunity has led to selection by house price rather than selection on ability / potential in educatiopn

So, there's nothing there in your post. We have all this right-wing government and it doesn't provide the equality of opportunity you espouse.

I'm a former assisted place pupil by the way. It was a hideous scheme that I wish I had never participated in. It separates you from the local area you live in, as you don't know the kids around you the way everyone at the state school does, and sends poorer kids into a an environment where they have to put up with real snobbery everyday from the fee-paying students.

Fuck assisted places and fuck private schools.

 

[zippyRN]

So, there's nothing there in your post. We have all this right-wing government and it doesn't provide the equality of opportunity you espouse.

I'm a former assisted place pupil by the way. It was a hideous scheme that I wish I had never participated in. It seperates you from the local area you live in, as you don't know the kids around you the way everyone at the state school does and sends poorer kids into a an environment where they have to put up with real snobbery every day from the fee-paying students.

Fuck assisted places and fuck private schools.

as opposed to assisted places being removed solely to appease class warriors

a properly riught wing government would have the cojones to bring in a voucher system for education - notice how even neue arbeit did that with Nursery where there wasn;t the universal provision

do you really beleive that a standardised idelogically party approved lowest common dnominator secondary modern for all system is the best that state education can be ?

 

[toggle]

considering that 13 of those glorious years were under Labour...

and that there is no sensible 'right' party in the UK - the Conservative party being right of centre rather than genuine right ... the problem is a genuine right party would be too radical in the UK ( or much of europe) as the british are relucantant to let people fall by the wayside int othe gutters and trailer parks as seen in the US

omg, what a terrible thing that we don't have to step over dying people on the streets. life would be so much better then.....

 

[Favelado]

as opposed to assisted places being removed solely to appease class warriors

a properly riught wing government would have the cojones to bring in a voucher system for education - notice how even neue arbeit did that with Nursery where there wasn;t the universal provision

do you really beleive that a standardised idelogically party approved lowest common dnominator secondary modern for all system is the best that state education can be ?

Que te lleves tus cojones como pendientes, gilipollas.

As for your second point, in which you assert that I believe something I never professed to believe, the answer is no.
I believe properly funded state education with quality teaching and quality resources works. We should give it a try sometime.

 

[toggle]

as opposed to assisted places being removed solely to appease class warriors

a properly riught wing government would have the cojones to bring in a voucher system for education - notice how even neue arbeit did that with Nursery where there wasn;t the universal provision

do you really beleive that a standardised idelogically party approved lowest common dnominator secondary modern for all system is the best that state education can be ?

wondering right now how drunk you've had to get in order to spout out the amount of extremism we've seen tonight, while managing to make the person with severe dyslexia raise an eyebrow at your spelling...

 

[zippyRN]

As for your second point, in which you assert that I believe something I never professed to believe, the answer is no.
I believe properly funded state education with quality teaching and quality resources works. We should give it a try sometime.

1944 education act laid the foundations , shame post war labour governments never delivered on it and by the 60s labout locally and nationally had started it;s assault on educational standards in the name of 'equality'

 

[zippyRN]

omg, what a terrible thing that we don't have to step over dying people on the streets. life would be so much better then.....

point missed as usual for U75

the small state right / libertarians means a 3rd world state like the US outside the metropolitan middle class bubble

 

[zippyRN]

'extremism' how delightfully deluded ...

 

[yield]

considering that 13 of those glorious years were under Labour...

and that there is no sensible 'right' party in the UK - the Conservative party being right of centre rather than genuine right ... the problem is a genuine right party would be too radical in the UK ( or much of europe) as the british are relucantant to let people fall by the wayside int othe gutters and trailer parks as seen in the US

GM schools were a step in the right direction , as was the assisted places scheme , CTCs etc ... ctcs and GM schools being 'ideologically rehabilitated' in crony labourite versions as Academies of course .

equality of opportunity is not the aim , equity of opportunity is ...

the illusion of equality of opportunity has led to selection by house price rather than selection on ability / potential in educatiopn

That post is all over the place. Equality of opportunity is normally contrasted with equality of outcome.

You should mention "monothought clique" to get bingo.

 

[Libertad]

zippyRN Why have you come here to shit all over this thread?

 

[toggle]

point missed as usual for U75

the small state right / libertarians means a 3rd world state like the US outside the metropolitan middle class bubble

oh, that was an actual point was it?

what was it pointing at?

cause i already know what it's like to live in the poorest region of western europe.

 

[toggle]

'extremism' how delightfully deluded ...

dead people in the gutters, a better way to run a country.

i'm ashamed enough at walking past live people lying on the streets most mornings on my way into work.