Outrage as Tory MP claims she felt threatened by 'thug gang' of campaigning OAPs and disabled people

[andysays]

so in otherwords tit canlt actually be proven, despite the way in HM coroner are well known for laying in all and sundry when responsibility could be apportioned ...

As equationgirl has already pointed out, coroners courts are limited to ruling that death is the result of suicide, without determining the ultimate cause of that suicide, but there is evidence to suggest that in a significant number of suicides, the actual or threatened withdrawal or reduction of benefits and other support was a significant factor.

But given that you're demanding that others provide evidence, perhaps you could provide some evidence for this claim of yours, otherwise we might be forced to conclude that you've simply pulled it out of your orange fuzzy arse.

 

[zippyRN]

Incidentally zippyRN why is it do you think that the

DWP Block Release Of Figures On Number Of People Dying After Benefits Stopped?

Huff post and change.org

never mind the very pertinent epidemiological points made by the DWP

what about all the people who are 'fit for work' becasue they have never questioned their fitnessfor work and drop down dead while in work ...

 

[zippyRN]

As equationgirl has already pointed out, coroners courts are limited to ruling that death is the result of suicide, without determining the ultimate cause of that suicide, but there is evidence to suggest that in a significant number of suicides, the actual or threatened withdrawal or reduction of benefits and other support was a significant factor.

But given that you're demanding that others provide evidence, perhaps you could provide some evidence for this claim of yours, otherwise we might be forced to conclude that you've simply pulled it out of your orange fuzzy arse.

I'm not the one making the claim - rules of scientific evidence place the responsibility for providing evidence on the person making the claim

Coroners are free to make narrative vierdicts and provide comments on other verdicts , if the problem was a widespread as it is claimed then surely people would be able to provide something stronger than a huff post article about a change.org petition ( 99 % of which are bullshit or full of fallacy anyway) ...

 

[teqniq]

Huff post and change.org

and?

never mind the very pertinent epidemiological points made by the DWP

what about all the people who are 'fit for work' becasue they have never questioned their fitnessfor work and drop down dead while in work ...

What is this actually supposed to even mean?

Get to fuck.

 

[toggle]

Narrative verdicts ? as if it was such a major preciptating factor as the la-la land magic money tree lefties keep claiming it is, surely there would be at least a couple of dozen narrative verdicts or coroner's recorded comments making such a link ...

it is easy to find a wide variety of stories of people who have died as a result of benefit sanctions, or very shortly after their medical conditions were ignored by an assessor and they were found fit for work. you will even find a whole thread discussing that very issue on this board, if you could be bothered to look.

but what you're doing right now is saying you couldn't be bothered to look at those discussions, and demand that we provide you with evidence that, going by your past form, you will then sneer at and claim isn't actually evidence. no one is going to bother with a process that they already know is a waste of time because they have seen you pull this stunt before.

 

[zippyRN]

and?

{quote]never mind the very pertinent epidemiological points made by the DWP

what about all the people who are 'fit for work' becasue they have never questioned their fitnessfor work and drop down dead while in work ...

What is this actually supposed to even mean?

Get to fuck. [/QUOTE]

epidemiological points - people who try to claim ESA are likely to have health problems and believe ( or have been told by others who aren;t clinically qualified) that these are so serious they cannot work at all ...

interestingly the left only seems to want to see those who are fit to work and those who are unfit to work , rather than the various gradiations and grey areas that both the welfare system and Occupational health deal with .

ESA claimaints it's a self selecting group where the morbidity and mortality is likely to be higher than the population in general -.

this is before we look at health beliefs stuff

the way the left's party line is worded you'd think no one in work every drops down dead with a heart attack / stroke / undiagnosed other serious problem

 

[zippyRN]

it is easy to find a wide variety of stories of people who have died as a result of benefit sanctions, or very shortly after their medical conditions were ignored by an assessor and they were found fit for work. you will even find a whole thread discussing that very issue on this board, if you could be bothered to look.

but what you're doing right now is saying you couldn't be bothered to look at those discussions, and demand that we provide you with evidence that, going by your past form, you will then sneer at and claim isn't actually evidence. no one is going to bother with a process that they already know is a waste of time because they have seen you pull this stunt before.

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

 

[teqniq]

Why are the DWP not willing to release the figures eh?

And don't witter on about change.org or the Huff post there's a good chap.

 

[andysays]

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

Just when I thought you'd sunk as low as you could go, you come out with this shit.

You've demonstrated what a worthless hate-filled cunt you are, and I for one won't be bothering to engage with you any further.

 

[teqniq]

actually yeah that's pretty much as nasty as it gets.

 

[zippyRN]

Just when I thought you'd sunk as low as you could go, you come out with this shit.

You've demonstrated what a worthless hate-filled cunt you are, and I for one won't be bothering to engage with you any further.

just telling it how it is based on nearly 2 decades in frontline healthcare ...

 

[zippyRN]

actually yeah that's pretty much as nasty as it gets.

so you are denying the Left adopts a pity based approach to disability ?

consisting of patting them on the head and offering sympathy ...

some of the psychiatrists ofthe late c19th early C20th and surgeons like McIndoe and Guttmann whose work became for those with life changing injuries would be spinning in their graves at the attitudes displayed by some on the left ...

 

[StoneRoad]

Then I wonder why the "foodbank" system exis ... ...

oh Fuck it - I'm not feeding the troll
As I said ^^^ fuck off this thread Zippy ...

 

[andysays]

just telling it how it is based on nearly 2 decades in frontline healthcare ...

You work in frontline healthcare?!?

I hope you demonstrate a rather more caring side of your character in your professional life than you do here

 

[zippyRN]

You work in frontline healthcare?!?

I hope you demonstrate a rather more caring side of your character in your professional life than you do here

interesting that you equate caring with pity ... rather than empowerment ...

and equate working in healthcare with economic illiteracy

 

[zippyRN]

Then I wonder why the "foodbank" system exis ... ...

oh Fuck it - I'm not feeding the troll
As I said ^^^ fuck off this thread Zippy ...

because the crisis loans system was being misused ?

 

[andysays]

where are the coroner's verdicts and comments saying that rather than pity based wailings of left and the guilt ridden pleadings of family who couldnl;t be bothered while the person was alive ?

I've now reported this post to the moderators and asked that they step in to deal with your on-going campaign of trolling and other hateful shit across a number of threads dealing with these issues.

 

[tufty79]

I've now reported this post to the moderators

Likewise.

 

[teqniq]

so you are denying the Left adopts a pity based appraoch to disability ?

consisting of patting them on the head and offering sympathy ...

I work in support work and I can assure you we do not have a pity-based approach to the service users we support. I may on occasion personally feel sorry for some of them some of the time. But often they can be pretty amazing people regardless or indeed because or in spite of the disabilities they may have. The service as a whole is fairly professionally run with detailed care plans etc. In fact if you were to start talking in terms of pity especially within the earshot of a case manager from Social Services I would imagine someone putting you straight in fairly short order.

now about those DWP figures.....?

 

[eatmorecheese]

interesting that you equate caring with pity ... rather than empowerment ...

and equate working in healthcare with economic illiteracy

You really think that the remodelling of sickness benefits is predicated on empowerment and fostering resilience?

What's all this crap about 'pity'? Empathy is not the same thing. What on earth job do you have, anyway?

You don't have a clue, fuckwit. And fuck off with that 'family guilt' you utter cunt.

 

[equationgirl]

just telling it how it is based on nearly 2 decades in frontline healthcare ...

God help any sick person who has the misfortune to have to be treated by you in that case.

Why are you in a caring profession when you clearly think those with serious life limiting health conditions are lying malingerers?

 

[equationgirl]

What is this actually supposed to even mean?

Get to fuck.

epidemiological points - people who try to claim ESA are likely to have health problems and believe ( or have been told by others who aren;t clinically qualified) that these are so serious they cannot work at all ...

interestingly the left only seems to want to see those who are fit to work and those who are unfit to work , rather than the various gradiations and grey areas that both the welfare system and Occupational health deal with .

ESA claimaints it's a self selecting group where the morbidity and mortality is likely to be higher than the population in general -.

this is before we look at health beliefs stuff

the way the left's party line is worded you'd think no one in work every drops down dead with a heart attack / stroke / undiagnosed other serious problem

Oh just fuck off.

 

[zippyRN]

I work in support work and I can assure you we do not have a pity-based approach to the service users we support. I may on occasion personally feel sorry for some of them some of the time.

i think you are confusing the political attitudes ofthe left , and the practical experiences in practice of people who work in health and social at a hands on level there ...

But often they can be pretty amazing people regardless or indeed because or in spite of the disabilities they may have. The service as a whole is fairly professionally run with detailed care plans etc. In fact if you were start talking in terms of pity especially within the earshot of a case manager from Social Services I would imagine someone putting you straight in fairly short order.

now about those DWP figures.....?

fake personal attack to attempt to discredit someone ... very good , if shockingly poor standards of discussion.


however there does seem to be a massive disconnect in some people;s mind between what they do in their practice and the unsustainable system they support .

 

[zippyRN]

God help any sick person who has the misfortune to have to be treated by you in that case.

Why are you in a caring profession when you clearly think those with serious life limiting health conditions are lying malingerers?

ah personal attacks

and the usual fallacy that people are either fit or not fit ... funny how real occupational health practice and the benefit system recognises that there is a rangfe of different answers to the question of fitness for work ...

 

[zippyRN]

You really think that the remodelling of sickness benefits is predicated on empowerment and fostering resilience?

What's all this crap about 'pity'? Empathy is not the same thing. What on earth job do you have, anyway?

You don't have a clue, fuckwit. And fuck off with that 'family guilt' you utter cunt.

as we are playing personal attacks - you appear to have a difficulty in distingusihing between sympathy and empathy

as for empowerment and resilience, these are anaethema to the left , as they mean people question the truth and hacts passed from the Party ... same as the left;s attack on Grammar schools and their confusion of equity and equality of opportunity ( aka it's equal if we pull all the ladders up far enough and then when the faithful question that ofer them some crumbs if they are ideologically sound )

 

[eatmorecheese]

ah personal attacks

and the usual fallacy that people are either fit or not fit ... funny how real occupational health practice and the benefit system recognises that there is a rangfe of different answers to the question of fitness for work ...

Has anyone said otherwise?

 

[StoneRoad]

And that, dear zippyRN is something that equationgirl has significant personal experience with.

So, do us all a favour - FUCK OFF - and leave this thread to others.

 

[equationgirl]

ah personal attacks

and the usual fallacy that people are either fit or not fit ... funny how real occupational health practice and the benefit system recognises that there is a rangfe of different answers to the question of fitness for work ...

Telling you to fuck off because you're trolling yet another disability related thread with your nastiness is not a personal attack.

 

[teqniq]

i think you are confusing the political attitudes ofthe left , and the practical experiences in practice of people who work in health and social at a hands on level there ...

fake personal attack to attempt to discredit someone ... very good , if shockingly poor standards of discussion.

Really? No personal attack from me in that post, oh no. I was just telling you how I see the service I work within. But, anyway I can see that you are really not worth the trouble.

 

[eatmorecheese]

as we are playing personal attacks - you appear to have a difficulty in distingusihing between sympathy and empathy

as for empowerment and resilience, these are anaethema to the left , as they mean people question the truth and hacts passed from the Party ... same as the left;s attack on Grammar schools and their confusion of equity and equality of opportunity ( aka it's equal if we pull all the ladders up far enough and then when the faithful question that ofer them some crumbs if they are ideologically sound )

There's quite a jumble of stuff in this post, I can't quite work it out tbh