"Only the truth can set you free"

[danny la rouge]

NE, have you read Jonathon Livingstone Seagull yet? Most boys discover it about your age, just before they discover girls, or other boys (according to taste).

 

[kyser_soze]

What have been your own experiences of this?
The times I have been held back in my life were the times I was in conflict.
I was in conflict nearly every time because my belief system about a problem or matter was not in alignment with reality - hence "only the truth can set you free". The shackles were set free once I had empowered myself with true knowledge rather than continuing to live in the world of "it's not fair" and the world of "should be".

Note the negative replies on this thread indicate people who have not found the freedom you have, and are bitter about it

No fela, just that I and probably Dill, BA, soj and others got through this stage in our personal developement when we were in our teens or earlier. It's pretty elementry stuff, recognising that one can suffer from cognitive dissonance by attempting to impose ones own rules on a reality which continually kicks them back as being inadequate to the task.

But hey, you and Gmart (superb support, one of the best thinkers on Urban. Really.) continue to say 'book learning' and 'closed minds' and 'they live in fear' and whatnot.

You are right about one thing tho - it is difficult to get a discussion going, mainly because this place has numpties like noego, gmart and yourself running around telling everyone that they're closed minded...

 

[Gmart]

You are right about one thing tho - it is difficult to get a discussion going, mainly because this place has numpties like noego, gmart and yourself running around telling everyone that they're closed minded...

Fair enough - still actions speak louder than words - if you look thru the threads on here most are derailed by others who refuse to ignore a thread which they have no interest in. They would prefer to throw snide comments into the pot and attack those who wish to engage.

I suppose I am hardly likely to agree with Kyser - it's just that I wish it were the case that I was the problem here. I just try and use this place to discuss issues which I find interesting - I have no interest in calling people names.

 

[fela fan]

I agree - but still don't let their fear affect you - there will always be some who are open to straightforward discussion.

AFA the 'truth' is concerned - I feel this can be a distraction - like purity - I prefer 'following logic'. Being open to change, allowing others to speak always (coz you already know what YOU think), trusting the people around you, choosing who you surround yourself with etc - just general rules which have served me well.

I know that I went thru a period of judgment, shoulds and other people's approval, but maturity is knowing that you can move beyond this simplistic circuit.

As the 'NoEgo' name implies it is necessary to dissolve the ego at some point - and the ego will resist this. Once thru that you can start taking the world as it comes, rather than based on programs you have created in the past (often books regurgitated as Fela says).

Those who are defined by fear will abuse you for not worrying as much, about so many things, as they do. Be compassionate - as Robert Anton Wilson says, (to paraphrase) everyone who gets thru, recognises that they were robots before, but didn't realise it. (Prometheus Rising - a great book)

Remember their laughter is their only defense, which is why this site has so many who are simply up for laughs - that is the only way they have to deal with their fear.

Interesting to read your post, and accordingly i feel i need to quote the lot. I particularly agree with your request for compassion, but at times i decide to react poorly, but consciously, on urban; not in my 'other' life however.There are reasons for this, but probably on balance i'm doing the wrong thing. However, i find it even more distasteful seeing others being insulted beyond belief here on urban, and have spent my several years here actually challenging it. For me personally i don't really give a hoot (to coin a phrase in my adopted country).

And i will always say what i want to say mate!

Your general rules are similar to mine, but it ain't so easy to abide by them here on urban. I'm only really interested in this forum, but that interest is waning due to the lack of decent and respectful discussions. It's going the same way that world politics went, so many good posters just gave up with the shit that goes on in there.

On a lighter note, i did find it hilarious the description that butchersapron came up with to demonstrate his understanding of the type of person NoEgo is. I'm sure it couldn't have been more wrong, and in addition it imbued on NoEgo a life with politics as its default. Again i doubt that very much. Politics is just divisive and negative, and anti-truth.

Also an interesting link between laughter and fear!

 

[fela fan]

The OP needs to read Ivana Markova's Dialogicality and Social Representations, and Paradigms, Thought and Language, and preferably either shut the fuck up until he has, or retire to a New Age Mush forum that the mods will set up for people with undercooked scramble eggs instead of brains.

Ah yes, the "read the bloody text you fool" response. Yep, more theory, more other people's ideas rather than doing one's own discoveries. And yep, more disrespect and rudeness.

This thread belongs perfectly to this forum. And you would do better to choose threads you can contribute to rather than just hurling abuse at others. Have you nothing better to do with your life?

Dialogicality... social representations... wonderful sounding and impressively long terms, hope it serves you well, but no need to foist it on others.

 

[fela fan]

NE, have you read Jonathon Livingstone Seagull yet? Most boys discover it about your age, just before they discover girls, or other boys (according to taste).

The mentality and maturity displayed by NoEgo's posts here, in contrast to what you've written about him, make you look like you're barely out of kindergarten.

You are doing your level best to make others feel bad and inadequate. What does that say about you eh? Oh mature, grown-up one.

It seems you're the inadequate one.

 

[fela fan]

No fela, just that I and probably Dill, BA, soj and others got through this stage in our personal developement when we were in our teens or earlier. It's pretty elementry stuff, recognising that one can suffer from cognitive dissonance by attempting to impose ones own rules on a reality which continually kicks them back as being inadequate to the task.

But hey, you and Gmart (superb support, one of the best thinkers on Urban. Really.) continue to say 'book learning' and 'closed minds' and 'they live in fear' and whatnot.

You are right about one thing tho - it is difficult to get a discussion going, mainly because this place has numpties like noego, gmart and yourself running around telling everyone that they're closed minded...

Whatever stages you feel you have long since gone through (and bully for you), you obviously haven't got through the self-delusion stage, and the becoming-an-effective-reader stage.

Oh well, lots of room for everyone to develop at their own pace.

And yes, you also display some incredible close-mindedness, i'm not wrong there.

Note how you came here quoting me from other threads, dissing my name, dissing my development, disrespecting me, derailing the thread, and all because you ALREADY KNOW AND ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS STAGE and don't have an ounce of empathy for those late developers as you see them.

You're the one with the problem mate, but of course, i don't expect you to see it that way...

 

[kyser_soze]

Fair enough - still actions speak louder than words - if you look thru the threads on here most are derailed by others who refuse to ignore a thread which they have no interest in. They would prefer to throw snide comments into the pot and attack those who wish to engage.

I suppose I am hardly likely to agree with Kyser - it's just that I wish it were the case that I was the problem here. I just try and use this place to discuss issues which I find interesting - I have no interest in calling people names.

Ok, I'll engage with the OP.

What have been your own experiences of this?
The times I have been held back in my life were the times I was in conflict.
I was in conflict nearly every time because my belief system about a problem or matter was not in alignment with reality - hence "only the truth can set you free". The shackles were set free once I had empowered myself with true knowledge rather than continuing to live in the world of "it's not fair" and the world of "should be".

Well my own experiences have been less about one or other 'truth' setting me 'free', more a recognition and understanding of how a given situation works - and subjective conflict with that position has in many cases driven me forward and enabled me to change the situation. Other times I have been able to recognise that such a course would never work and accept that going with the flow is the best route forward.

It's hardly a masive revelation about the 'truth' setting me 'free', more a pragmatic realisation of the direction to take - sometimes the easy path, sometimes the hard.

The OP seems to be mistaking a basic part of growing up - recognising that your subjective universe is secondary to the objective one consisting of everyone elses subjective universe and it's own physical reality - for a period of great revelation and some kind of 'truth'.

Taking on your post, this:

AFA the 'truth' is concerned - I feel this can be a distraction - like purity - I prefer 'following logic'. Being open to change, allowing others to speak always (coz you already know what YOU think), trusting the people around you, choosing who you surround yourself with etc - just general rules which have served me well.

I know that I went thru a period of judgment, shoulds and other people's approval, but maturity is knowing that you can move beyond this simplistic circuit.

Is related to what I'm saying - esp the part about maturity. As you say, this idea of a 'truth' or a purity is a distraction.

As the 'NoEgo' name implies it is necessary to dissolve the ego at some point - and the ego will resist this. Once thru that you can start taking the world as it comes, rather than based on programs you have created in the past (often books regurgitated as Fela says).

Those who are defined by fear will abuse you for not worrying as much, about so many things, as they do. Be compassionate - as Robert Anton Wilson says, (to paraphrase) everyone who gets thru, recognises that they were robots before, but didn't realise it. (Prometheus Rising - a great book)

Remember their laughter is their only defense, which is why this site has so many who are simply up for laughs - that is the only way they have to deal with their fear.

It's interesting that you equate mockery with fear, as a defence mechanism. What exactly do you think I have to fear? What am I afraid of? What is my 'program of the past', because I know a lot from books?

 

[kyser_soze]

The mentality and maturity displayed by NoEgo's posts here

What, in saying 'Hey, I've realised that the world doesn't work as I want it to'? That display's maturity?

Note how you came here quoting me from other threads, dissing my name, dissing my development, disrespecting me, derailing the thread, and all because you ALREADY KNOW AND ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS STAGE and don't have an ounce of empathy for those late developers as you see them.

Not derailing the thread at all. In fact, all my replies have been completely on topic. You're the one who has consistently failed to engage with the OPs subject matter, not me.

Oh and this:

Empowerment is the precursor to freedom, while being involved in power play and games is the impediment to freedom. But the kind of freedom you're talking about is not the same as, say, dillinger's, who really is just spouting texts and theories he's read in his midguided attempt to believe he's educated. That's why he says the law gives freedom, which is unbelievably naive, but there you go.

Wow, you completely missed the sarcasm in that reply, didn't you?

 

[fela fan]

Not derailing the thread at all. In fact, all my replies have been completely on topic. You're the one who has consistently failed to engage with the OPs subject matter, not me.

Your first four posts on this thread:

'Are you a really precocious 10 year old, or a 20 year old idiot?'

'fela fan can explain that one to you.
Apparently it has something to do with an Indian word for 'ego' that means exactly the same thing, but doesn't, and 'primal energy'.'

'Now, call me an old Freudian, but I always placed 'Me' and 'ego' in the same place...'

'I wanted to make the discussion wider than simply focussing on 'primodial physical energy'...'

on topic??

 

[fela fan]

What, in saying 'Hey, I've realised that the world doesn't work as I want it to'? That display's maturity?

That wasn't what he said. It is only what you have inferred again.

And your argument is based on quicksand. There are millions upon millions of people who have not found the empowerment that NoEgo is talking about, even if you yourself found it in your teens. But you didn't find it, and the proof is in your cynical and disrespectful manner of communicating.

 

[Dillinger4]

.

 

[kyser_soze]

That wasn't what he said. It is only what you have inferred again.

And your argument is based on quicksand. There are millions upon millions of people who have not found the empowerment that NoEgo is talking about, even if you yourself found it in your teens. But you didn't find it, and the proof is in your cynical and disrespectful manner of communicating.

It is what he said. He was able to develop when he realised that his subjective ideas of what was 'fair' or 'should be' were misaligned with reality.

He realised that the world didn't work as he wants/ed it to.

Re: your quoting of me...

I think anyone capable of seeing dilli's post before my replies can tell that they are both in context (I was replying to dilli) and in the spirit of the thread, it being about truth, and how you'd stated on another thread that the quote was 'the closest someone has come to setting down what the truth is in words' or words to that effect.

BTW, it's not necessarily and empowering moment, unless you count acknowledging that the world as a whole is shit and your ideas of fair don't count as empowering. It's a moment of realisation, for sure, but empowering? Depends on how you deal with the knowledge really - if you then go on to accept every tenet of your society and never raise your fist to something you consider to be unfair or unjust again, I'd say it's the opposite of empowering.

 

[fela fan]

I can't argue with your self-delusion - your first post is post #8, and is a direct, but totally disrespectful reply to the OP.

It is also NOT what he said, but your own inference of what he said.

 

[kyser_soze]

That was based around NoEgos long, long history of posting these thread topics and then buggering off; and also to my basic point that realising the world isn't fair and that you have to adjust yourself to fit it sometimes.

Absolutely what he said - realising you have to fit in to the world brings relief from endlessly battling against it, much like not banging one's head against a solid object would bring.

So are you actually going to try and respond to my points about what you've written, or endlessly say that I'm self-delusional, close-minded and disrespectful?

 

[fela fan]

You're moving the goalposts mate.

I should be a wee bit more accurate... you are displaying the aspects of self-delusion and closed-mindedness. I doubt somehow you are either of these to any great degree. You are however frequently being disrespectful, but anything i say is just because i want to say it. What i say is totally unimportant, it's just that if i want to say something, i shall. Don't let me stop you.

As for your points, you've always been someone who responds, even if negatively, and that's a whole heap politer than some. But because of all this side-issue stuff, i'm afraid i've lost track of what your points are... so i can't respond. Perhaps i'll reread it all and try.

 

[bhamgeezer]

I love it when people mistake their own personal subject change in belief for an experience that everyone else has not had thus needs to go through. Word to the disilluded, not everyone was illuded in the first place.

 

[fela fan]

BTW, it's not necessarily and empowering moment, unless you count acknowledging that the world as a whole is shit and your ideas of fair don't count as empowering. It's a moment of realisation, for sure, but empowering? Depends on how you deal with the knowledge really - if you then go on to accept every tenet of your society and never raise your fist to something you consider to be unfair or unjust again, I'd say it's the opposite of empowering.

this is the only point i can find that you've put to me, and to address it let me quote NoEgo from his OP:

"The shackles were set free once I had empowered myself with true knowledge rather than continuing to live in the world of "it's not fair" and the world of "should be"."

I can't really address it since i asked NoEgo to tell me what he meant by 'true knowledge'. So until i know what he means by this i can't comment on your reluctance to accept it as empowerment.

I know what i understand by empowerment, and i think it's a key concept in life towards one of non-suffering (or, truth be told, a life of very little suffering).

Now, part of my empowerment is not turning a blind eye at all. But it does require me to recognise what i can usefully do in reaction to unfairness and injustice in contrast to what i cannot effect change in, and then to act accordingly.

 

[kyser_soze]

I love it when people mistake their own personal subject change in belief for an experience that everyone else has not had thus needs to go through. Word to the disilluded, not everyone was illuded in the first place.

OO, 'illuded'... a new word (as in not in the dictionary new word)...I like it tho...sounds like it has something to do with illumination...

 

[Bakunin]

What have been your own experiences of this?
The times I have been held back in my life were the times I was in conflict.
I was in conflict nearly every time because my belief system about a problem or matter was not in alignment with reality - hence "only the truth can set you free". The shackles were set free once I had empowered myself with true knowledge rather than continuing to live in the world of "it's not fair" and the world of "should be".

Ciriously enough, the phrase 'And Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shally set you free' is the motto carved over the entrance to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

One suspects it was put there by that rare American who understands irony.

 

[NoEgo]

I did type a reply to this but it got lost in the ether. Note the negative replies on this thread indicate people who have not found the freedom you have, and are bitter about it. They're stuck in their texts and theories so much they don't do their own work in life. The belief systems you talk of can be seen in operation here!!

Empowerment is the precursor to freedom, while being involved in power play and games is the impediment to freedom. But the kind of freedom you're talking about is not the same as, say, dillinger's, who really is just spouting texts and theories he's read in his midguided attempt to believe he's educated. That's why he says the law gives freedom, which is unbelievably naive, but there you go.

I'd be interested to hear what you mean by 'true knowledge'.

The realisation of reality and hence the finding the solution to a problem. Non-alignment with reality nearly always means that you are trying a fix a problem for which there is no answer.

 

[fela fan]

The realisation of reality and hence the finding the solution to a problem. Non-alignment with reality nearly always means that you are trying a fix a problem for which there is no answer.

In that case i'm agreed, empowerment, or for me, self-empowerment (the same thing, but i prefer the second term) is very much to do with what you call true knowledge. I'd prefer the term 'awareness'! But we're talking the same thing.

Interestingly this discovery was something kyser said he made in his teens. Kudos to him for getting there so soon, but in my experience most people never really get to this discovery. Many others do, but the rigours and demands of today's modern world (nearly all time- and stress-related) relegate their discovery to the subconscious. Part of this self-empowerment for me is the learned (and hard-earned!) ability to react to negative situations and negative people with emotional disattachment. This ridding of emotional enslavement is key to accessing the truth and to being free in life.

Another part is: fight the winnable, accept the unchangeable - know when to fight and when to accept.

Another part is living one's life as far as possible in the manner that causes no negativity for others. Self-empowerment, accessing the truth, means recognising the debilitating outcomes that arise out of control, power, and fear, and making sure one is both unsusceptible to them and to avoid causing others to experience them.

The hard bit, sometimes, is staying in this state!

 

[danny la rouge]

Ah yes, the "read the bloody text you fool" response. Yep, more theory, more other people's ideas rather than doing one's own discoveries. And yep, more disrespect and rudeness.

This thread belongs perfectly to this forum. And you would do better to choose threads you can contribute to rather than just hurling abuse at others. Have you nothing better to do with your life?

Dialogicality... social representations... wonderful sounding and impressively long terms, hope it serves you well, but no need to foist it on others.

I'm impatient with New Age and PoMo vacuity masquerading as meaning. Occasionally I express my irritation that this forum is packed with the stuff. I recognise that this may mean my view of what "theory, philosophy & history" means is out of step with the majority, who see it as the equivalent of a bookstore's "body, mind, spirituality and self-help" section, but hey, that's life.

And, by the way, no I wasn't so much saying "read the text" as "understand text".

 

[Gmart]

It's interesting that you equate mockery with fear, as a defence mechanism. What exactly do you think I have to fear? What am I afraid of? What is my 'program of the past', because I know a lot from books?

Mockery can be a substitute to engaging with what has been said - preferring the cozy duvet of laughing with others, and I hope it's fair to say that many here are simply NOT interested in discussion - what they wish to do is mock, so they find threads where someone wants to discuss something seriously, and derail it by mocking their opinions.

It can be great of course - life is very silly at times and it is constructive to maintain a sense of humour - but it goes a bit far when it becomes just pointing and laughing at people rather than at life.

Some might argue that it is not 'fear' but 'boredom' of a 'well-known' conclusion. But why mock? Each person has the right to be on their own path of knowledge/'truth' (to return to the OP).

I prefer surreal humour, which is more difficult in that it is necessary to randomize one's brain while connecting to the present moment. More difficult - but more funny

[Programs of the Past]

Many create programs to deal with life - 'what do I do in this situation?', 'what do I do in that situation?', running and re-running the programs in their head until they have an 'answer' they would use in that eventuality.

To quote Margaret Millar:

Most conversations are simply monologues delivered in the presence of witnesses.

Others just live in the moment, which is harder - you have to stay more focused on what is actually being said, responding to each point as it comes up there and then.

Depends if one is actually interested in what the other person has to say, of course.

Some are more interested in their own monologue, waiting for a space to regurgitate their agenda (a fixed opinion previously decided). Ironically they already know what they are going to say, and are paying very little attention to what the other person is saying due to their focus on their own agenda (ie. waiting for a gap to say their piece)

The necessary rule which I took from this realisation was the need to shut up more in 121 conversations.

The realisation of reality and hence the finding the solution to a problem. Non-alignment with reality nearly always means that you are trying a fix a problem for which there is no answer.

The past is gone - learn your lessons and move on - I tend to go from revelation to revelation - in that I suddenly think i've worked something out, a paradigm shift if you will - and the world changes. But whatever I have worked out becomes the past immediately, and thus is open to continual revision.

However, if I wanted to, I could just stop listening/learning and focus on what I want to say - but this way, tho easier, lies bigotry and prejudice.

 

[fela fan]

I'm impatient with New Age and PoMo vacuity masquerading as meaning. Occasionally I express my irritation that this forum is packed with the stuff. I recognise that this may mean my view of what "theory, philosophy & history" means is out of step with the majority, who see it as the equivalent of a bookstore's "body, mind, spirituality and self-help" section, but hey, that's life.

And, by the way, no I wasn't so much saying "read the text" as "understand text".

Apologies are in order i think. I was in a bad tone with some of the other posters, and it spread over to you danny.

However, and this is worthy of its own thread somewhere, labels such as New Age probably entrap you to a degree. I personally have only a vague idea what it is supposed to include in its meaning. And i've never even heard of pomo.

As for meaning, how much of this does philosophy lark in general actually provide in a meaningful way...?!

And if you're out of step with the majority here, then i seem to be practically banished to the moon, at least in the last couple of years. 'Theory' really is a widely encompassing term, as is 'philosophy' really. I do see your point though, but i wouldn't be letting it rile you if it's so common, it'll be bad for your heart pressure.

I do like the body mind and soul bit about life, and feel it is more appropriate here than that other health forum which is a very different kind of place. I think if philosophy is largely concerned with the why we're here kind of thing, and who we are, then the trio of dimensions you don't like being here most certainly are part of it all.

It did look to me like you were castigating people for not having read a certain text. But never mind. I like books as much as the next person, but not when they come at the expense of personal discoveries about life and theories of life.

And plenty of threads on this or that text pop up here on this forum. I just don't read them or contribute...!

And to end, why don't you play around with your request to 'understand text', and see if it uncovers any alternative meanings to the one you intended...

 

[DotCommunist]

PoMo is shorthand for Post Modern fela.


Largely considered to be 'emperors new clothes' word games AFAIK

 

[fela fan]

To quote Margaret Millar:


Others just live in the moment, which is harder - you have to stay more focused on what is actually being said, responding to each point as it comes up there and then.

Depends if one is actually interested in what the other person has to say, of course.

Some are more interested in their own monologue, waiting for a space to regurgitate their agenda (a fixed opinion previously decided). Ironically they already know what they are going to say, and are paying very little attention to what the other person is saying due to their focus on their own agenda (ie. waiting for a gap to say their piece)

Another post i enjoyed reading from you mate. Have you heard of Grice's maxims with regard to conversation?

I frequently have listened to three separate monologs occurring between three people in the guise of one conversation. I know i used to be a bit guilty of this many years ago. That gap that you refer to is also an important feature of conversation... especially for those more interested in speaking than listening. I also frequently hear some people talking over each other.

Listening as a skill is not very well executed by a large amount of people. If one thinks about it it's the first of the four skills of communication we are exposed to, and is never officially taught to us at school. Nor is speaking. Only the written medium is actually taught to us.

I find the poor listeners the ones who already think they know everything. Lots of them come here, and a few of them resort to this mocking of others who speak different ideas.

Being a good listener/reader requires an open mind...

 

[fela fan]

PoMo is shorthand for Post Modern fela.


Largely considered to be 'emperors new clothes' word games AFAIK

Thanks for that mate, but i still remain a bit confused! Okay, post-modern, i guess i know what that means in a context of art, but to me it literally means somewhere in the future, perhaps that has already just about arrived in the present?

Maybe you could elaborate a bit on the emperor's new clothes bit?

Trouble for me sometimes, well maybe it's a good thing, is that having lived away from britain for so long, new terminology that comes along often fails to reach me. I then don't know what connotational meaning these labels are supposed to carry.

 

[kyser_soze]

PoMo is shorthand for Post Modern fela.


Largely considered to be 'emperors new clothes' word games AFAIK

Hugely powerful as a tool of language and symbol criticism, pretty much useless for anything practical is probably the most generous assessment of it.

It's also a bugger to get out of your head if you want to simply read something without drifting off on a whole 'How does this sentence, this choice of word, reflect the subconcious channeling of external power structures by the writer?'...

Just so we're clear - fela, you know what 'modern' means? Cos everything I've written about PoMo there only really has any meaning in the context of modernism...

Thanks for that mate, but i still remain a bit confused! Okay, post-modern, i guess i know what that means in a context of art, but to me it literally means somewhere in the future, perhaps that has already just about arrived in the present?

Maybe you could elaborate a bit on the emperor's new clothes bit?

Trouble for me sometimes, well maybe it's a good thing, is that having lived away from britain for so long, new terminology that comes along often fails to reach me. I then don't know what connotational meaning these labels are supposed to carry.

Post-modernism as an intellectual movement started in France in the 1960s; as an artisitic movement it can trace it's roots back to the 1920s, so it's hardly 'new' terminology...

 

[fela fan]

Hugely powerful as a tool of language and symbol criticism, pretty much useless for anything practical is probably the most generous assessment of it.

It's also a bugger to get out of your head if you want to simply read something without drifting off on a whole 'How does this sentence, this choice of word, reflect the subconcious channeling of external power structures by the writer?'...

Just so we're clear - fela, you know what 'modern' means? Cos everything I've written about PoMo there only really has any meaning in the context of modernism...



Post-modernism as an intellectual movement started in France in the 1960s; as an artisitic movement it can trace it's roots back to the 1920s, so it's hardly 'new' terminology...

I think i might even have written some testing materials on post-modernism, but have since let it rot in my long-term memory for perceived lack of usefulness to me. I thought it was something to do with art. But words themselves don't have fixed meanings, even ones that are supposed to, hence my literal definition.

And okay, i see about the PoMo, and so no arguments from me. I was beginning to wonder about this subconscious channeling of external power structures. Bloody hell, i hope they enjoy their discourse...

I'm not a fan of intellectualism for its own sake, as you might have realised. I'm more interested in intelligence, as displayed through awareness and consciousness of life in its entirety.