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#occupy London....

TopCat said:
I think it's naive to think that the police's fear of bad publicity (in the light of the widely reported US police brutality) will give them pause for thought instead of attacking the Occupy London protests when they get an opportunity. It will be messy but they don't care.
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So do you think they are chomping at the bit for an opportunity?

Like I said before, I think the rank and file would mostly do what they were told (many with a great deal of enthusiasm), with the odd dissenter here and there.

I think there are senior officers in the Met who wouldn't want anything to do with a brutal crackdown - the Met has different internal 'voices' (you hear these chirping up occasionally whenever the Government wants to bring in some ropey authoritarian nonsense, the 'marching people to cashpoints to pay spot fines' being one example that springs to mind). Various corporate interests close to Government wouldn't want to be associated with a likely resultant public outcry either.

If they went down the route of unjustifiable violence in full view of the media I think it wouldn't be long before it became clear to everyone what the lie of the land is in our 'democracy'. So I think for the foreseeable future (until something 'gamechanging' occurs), it will (in this country at least) be a patchwork of toleration, dispersal by manhandling, and the odd case of 'overenthusiastic use of force' (because you can't rein them all in all the time). Where proper violence is used I think they will be careful to handle the fallout, which given their incompetence in managing these things will mean keeping it out of the way and behind closed doors where possible (hence likely increased use of 'snatch squads').

That said, I think if these protests were taken to be a meaningful threat to the current state of affairs, the protesters would be met with armoured bulldozers and flamethrowers rather than batons. The protesters are just seen as a minor nuisance with little public backing at the moment.
 
When the moment comes, they will attack occupy London in the same manner as they attacked the pop up tents in Trafalgar Square on the last Student Demo.
 
TopCat said:
When the moment comes, they will attack occupy London in the same manner as they attacked the pop up tents in Trafalgar Square on the last Student Demo.
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It's what you consider to be 'the moment' that I'm not sure about. Obviously it's not the moment just yet, so I'm wondering what you think will need to change to make it 'the moment'.

Since you don't believe they care about 'impression management' it won't be that they're waiting for an excuse of some kind. So what do you think it is they're waiting for?
 
The police have been told by their bosses to hold off in London. I think that you were to an extent right in saying this is because the politicians are concerned about the attitude of the Church of England. They do not want a situation to occur where some impassioned vicar of note links arms with the protesters.

I would surmise they the politicians are trying to mitigate that threat right now. When they have done so, in go the plod.
 
well, I hope folk will be prepared with helmets sheilds and weapons. Give them some of their own treatment, kettle them and hold them in a square for an entire day. (whilst kicking fuck out of them)
 
TopCat said:
The police have been told by their bosses to hold off in London. I think that you were to an extent right in saying this is because the politicians are concerned about the attitude of the Church of England. They do not want a situation to occur where some impassioned vicar of note links arms with the protesters.

I would surmise they the politicians are trying to mitigate that threat right now. When they have done so, in go the plod.
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Wasn't me who mentioned the CoE but that's a good point. Still broadly comes under the 'publicity' angle, I'd say. I think you're right that the Govt will be in 'consultation' with the Church as we speak. But you know what it's like trying to argue with religious people, could take a while. ;)

I still think the Govt also won't want people making the connection between pro-democracy protesters getting abused in places like Egypt and the situation here, though, and will have identified that as a danger of getting too heavy. I guess they'll have to approach this either by taking a more equivocal stance towards the Arab spring, or trying to stick a wedge between that and the Occupy movements in the public imagination.
 
xes said:
well, I hope folk will be prepared with helmets sheilds and weapons. Give them some of their own treatment, kettle them and hold them in a square for an entire day. (whilst kicking fuck out of them)
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Well this is the issue is it not?

Will the certain knowledge that the police will use force to clear the occupiers cause the protesters to prepare for that attack and prepare to resist?

Or do they think that being attacked will advance their cause?

Or will fear of fighting cause some to be disingenuous and support NVDA even thought they know it does not work?
 
Would the CoE allow plod to batter fuck of out peaceful protesters on hallowed ground? or would they turn a blind eye? Don't know, but i reckon they'll be hoofed out before the Christmas celebrations begin, one way or another.
 
it will be interesting for sure. Given they will have undercover plod in that camp, I think they may set a tent or two on fire and then clear the camp for everyone's own good.
 
TopCat said:
Or will fear of fighting cause some to be disingenuous and support NVDA even thought they know it does not work?
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This is a gen Q, not a snide remark - I'm undecided on the value of NVDA:

Does NVDA not work any more than other tactics don't work?
 
TopCat said:
it will be interesting for sure. Given they will have undercover plod in that camp, I think they may set a tent or two on fire and then clear the camp for everyone's own good.
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They'll be considering that sort of thing - though you can imagine the mess if they got caught.

I can think of a much better way of doing almost the same with little to no risk (not mentioning it on these boards ,though, excuse the paranoia ;) ).
 
Why would the Met need to worry about bad publicity? Which mainstream media organisation would 'expose' them? The BBC put up a video of the squatting protest in Parliament Square the other week that to my eyes clearly depicted police officers beating a restrained arrestee. This was not commented upon, either by them, even though they posted the video, or by any other media organisation. The Met have nothing to worry about.
 
Brainaddict said:
Why would the Met need to worry about bad publicity? Which mainstream media organisation would 'expose' them? The BBC put up a video of the squatting protest in Parliament Square the other week that to my eyes clearly depicted police officers beating a restrained arrestee. This was not commented upon, either by them, even though they posted the video, or by any other media organisation. The Met have nothing to worry about.
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They may not have anything much to worry about, but they might be feeling nervous with their corrupt relationship with the Murdoch press on the verge of scrutiny.

So far, the emphasis has been on hacking, but if any of the main broadsheet editors grew some balls, they could drag the collusion between the Met and the tabloids and their signature approach of supressing dissent with violence and then using gutter press smear tactics to confuse the public and intimidate the victims of police violence into the light, which has to be a concern.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
They may not have anything much to worry about, but they might be feeling nervous with their corrupt relationship with the Murdoch press on the verge of scrutiny.

So far, the emphasis has been on hacking, but if any of the main broadsheet editors grew some balls, they could =drag the collusion between the Met and the gutter press in relation to supressing dissent with violence and smear tactics into the light, which has to be a concern.
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why does it have to be a serious concern for broadsheet editors? it's not like broadsheets haven't smeared demonstrators left, right and centre for many years. lest we forget: the sunday times and the £30 j18 protesters were said to have received, not to mention the samurai swords the mayday protestors were supposed to have had.
 
I said they potentially could and that the cops might be worried about it.

I didn't claim that e.g. Alan Rusbridger actually had functioning testicles.
 
Even when they cause someone's death the media are only too happy to spread their disinfo (IT being part of the protest, filth medics pelted with bottles etc etc etc). If I was a copper, I'd feel quite secure in meting out violence tbh.
 
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