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Noam Chomsky: 9-11: Institutional Analysis vs. Conspiracy Theory

Well if Chomsky said the US govt didn`t lie.... :rolleyes:

The icon of wishy washy pseudo-intellectuals everywhere and blatant controlled opposition.

He hasn`t responded to much specific information its just generalised guff. Which ironically is what the "conspiracy theorists" are accused of .
 
editor said:
I can only be amazed and gasp at your hindsight-assisted, highly selectively reading of events that you've managed to shoehorn into an elaborate conspiracy theory that would involve the willing assistance of tens of thousands of perpetually-silent accomplices scattered all over the globe.FFS. Not this 'patsie' bollocks again. According to you, just about every major news incident that catches the comaspiraloons fancy can only have been accomplished by these ever-willing patsies (9/11, Huntley, 7/7 etc etc). Naturally, you've yet to muster up an ounce of credible evidence to support your claims.

I`ve posted lots of evidence, but you lock the threads, bin them and then ban people.

200+ smoking guns? The simple methodology of following the money? :confused: Your quick to say theres "no evidence" but you never bloody respond to the evidence! You sit with your fingers in your ears humming....its stupid.

Your not interested in the truth, you just want to keep your stupid forum free of any topics you feel might offput any potential customers who come to purvey your little "project". Piss off. :)
 
Azrael23 said:
Your not interested in the truth, you just want to keep your stupid forum free of any topics you feel might offput any potential customers who come to purvey your little "project". Piss off. :)
"Customers"?

Who's paying for what then, fruitloop boy?
 
Azrael23 said:
Well if Chomsky said the US govt didn`t lie.... :rolleyes:

The icon of wishy washy pseudo-intellectuals everywhere and blatant controlled opposition.

How is the opposition blantantly controlled?

Oh I've heard some good ones, I've seen some good ones.

Wanna see how the skull and bones control Chomsky?

left_gatekeepers.gif


This is not a joke, this was mailed to me by a conspiraloon.
 
Jazzz said:
No BK, you don't have to 'believe' - including the official theory. That's the tough thing. NOT believing, and instead of a nice ordered world where everyone knows what's going on, you have uncertainty and manipulation.


It strikes me that with almost all the CT sites I have visited,what you get is lots of anxious people channelling a vague sense of personal paranoia into a belief that if only they can peer through the veil they will find the Truth, and the Truth will set them free. The Truth most commonly posited in CT sites is that everything that is going wrong is all the fault of some global Evil entitity super-state machine thing.

Believing this, and asking questions and having fun trying on various esoteric theories seems to fulfils a powerful psychological need in some people. It gives them a sense of ' a not-so-nice ordered world where nobody knows what's going on' - apart from them and their fellow truthseekers, and there is a comfort and a feeling of superiority in that. It's not your fault, it's not that you are depressed or paranoid, not as successful in life as you'd like. It's all the fault of the Evil Machine and its uncertainities and manipulations. You, the anxious internet truth hunter are thus off the hook, and you can amuse yourself by searching through endless theories, asking endless questions, feeding your innate paranoia and thus making yourself feel better for generally feeling a bit of an odd one out and always having had this creeping sense of alientation and doom. It's not you. It's Them. Your'e not wierd. You're Neo.

So I say to the conspiracy theory fan: Play on the internet if if it makes you happier, ask endless questions, gad from theory to theory like a mayfly, but don't start trying to convert me to whatever your current fave set of doubts is today, or to expect me to have much patience with endless positing of doom-mongering possible sinsiter theories, asking of endless questions about ''the official version'' of everything, ever, when there's little or no evidence presented to back up these claims, apart from your own selective reading and a general malise of societal unease and anxiety that you've had since you were a nipper which you feed with the internet sites.

Because it is just tiresome. Yes, asking questions, challenging authority is good. But not if asking the questions and then just asking another load of questions is the be-all and end-all of it all - never listening to the answers and considering them and using rationality and logic to form opinions. At some point, it stops being ''truth hunting'' or ''research'' and just becomes akin to OCD.

The world is a messy, fucked up, chaotic, beautiful place. It is what we make it. There is no shadowy force behind everything, it doesn't all link together, so if you ask the right questions enough times and join all the dots, all will become clear.

If you want ineffable certainties in life, go pick a religion. All this CT stuff just winds people up, and drives people madder and madder, because it's tilting at windmills, chasing shadows. It makes the anxious more anxious, the paranoid more paranoid, the angry, angrier. There is no Grand Conspiracy. We are all part of the same dream, the same conspiracy. We are all it. Deal with it. Live it. Engage with it. Step away from the realms of paranoia and ceaseless, pointless speculation and if you want change, make it happen.
 
Bob said:
I haven't seen a theory that you haven't signed up to so far.


Be fair, I don't think Azrael ''does'' UFOS. Do you Azrael?

Anyway we need an Azrael update. What new madcap, yet strangely- compelling hypotheses and troubling questions relating to mysterious esoteric beliefs and sinsiter shadowy conspiracies did you pick up whilst truth hunting in your time away?

Have you got into Von Daniken Chariots of the Gods yet? Or is that all a bit last century for the fearless internet truth hunter ( people were into that when I was at school. It's a book.).

What about weather being controlled by the CIA? The Tsunami being a nuclear test? Bohemian Grove and the baby eating owl god, I can't remember your position on that. Or on Freemasons either.
 
Azrael23 said:
Wealthy businessmen, editor.

To whom you provide "services", you make me sick.


Ah, of course, the editor's nightly servicing of the owl-god worshipping Masons, how could we all have let that slip our minds. Perhaps you think the editor provides orphaned children to be sacrificed to Molloch or Mithras? Or ritually prepared goats? Or opium-drowsy virgins to dance in the halls of the Clansmen?
 
Jonti said:
No. Consider your two possibilities represented by the truthful and liar Cretans.

a) the person saying "All Cretans are liars" is truthful.
Then he has lied, which is a contradiction.

b) the person saying "All Cretans are liars" is a liar
Then he has told the truth, which is a contradiction.

QED
You are mistaken Jonti - because in the case where just some Cretans are liars, the statement 'All Cretans are liars' is clearly not true. So in case (b) our lying Cretan is not telling the truth, he is telling a lie. No paradox! ;)
 
Badger Kitten said:
It strikes me that with almost all the CT sites I have visited,what you get is lots of anxious people channelling a vague sense of personal paranoia into a belief that if only they can peer through the veil they will find the Truth, and the Truth will set them free. The Truth most commonly posited in CT sites is that everything that is going wrong is all the fault of some global Evil entitity super-state machine thing.

Believing this, and asking questions and having fun trying on various esoteric theories seems to fulfils a powerful psychological need in some people. It gives them a sense of ' a not-so-nice ordered world where nobody knows what's going on' - apart from them and their fellow truthseekers, and there is a comfort and a feeling of superiority in that. It's not your fault, it's not that you are depressed or paranoid, not as successful in life as you'd like. It's all the fault of the Evil Machine and its uncertainities and manipulations. You, the anxious internet truth hunter are thus off the hook, and you can amuse yourself by searching through endless theories, asking endless questions, feeding your innate paranoia and thus making yourself feel better for generally feeling a bit of an odd one out and always having had this creeping sense of alientation and doom. It's not you. It's Them. Your'e not wierd. You're Neo.

So I say to the conspiracy theory fan: Play on the internet if if it makes you happier, ask endless questions, gad from theory to theory like a mayfly, but don't start trying to convert me to whatever your current fave set of doubts is today, or to expect me to have much patience with endless positing of doom-mongering possible sinsiter theories, asking of endless questions about ''the official version'' of everything, ever, when there's little or no evidence presented to back up these claims, apart from your own selective reading and a general malise of societal unease and anxiety that you've had since you were a nipper which you feed with the internet sites.

Because it is just tiresome. Yes, asking questions, challenging authority is good. But not if asking the questions and then just asking another load of questions is the be-all and end-all of it all - never listening to the answers and considering them and using rationality and logic to form opinions. At some point, it stops being ''truth hunting'' or ''research'' and just becomes akin to OCD.

The world is a messy, fucked up, chaotic, beautiful place. It is what we make it. There is no shadowy force behind everything, it doesn't all link together, so if you ask the right questions enough times and join all the dots, all will become clear.

If you want ineffable certainties in life, go pick a religion. All this CT stuff just winds people up, and drives people madder and madder, because it's tilting at windmills, chasing shadows. It makes the anxious more anxious, the paranoid more paranoid, the angry, angrier. There is no Grand Conspiracy. We are all part of the same dream, the same conspiracy. We are all it. Deal with it. Live it. Engage with it. Step away from the realms of paranoia and ceaseless, pointless speculation and if you want change, make it happen.
You are entitled to your opinions BK. But how hypocritical is it of you to say 'don't start trying to convert me' (obviously a bit of a non-starter, that idea) while you feel utterly free to bark instructions at everyone else?

Unfortunately for us, there IS a grand conspiracy. Once you are prepared to accept the possibility it becomes extremely clear, and you can see it daily in the chipping away of our freedoms (did that ever happen with the IRA? of course not), the preparations to turn the UK into a police state, the fact that Labour governments turn out to be more Tory than Tory ones, the complete lack of hard evidence for the official story of 9/11 where plenty should exist etc. etc.

But read your own post. Who is the one claiming to be all superior?
 
Jazzz said:
Unfortunately for us, there IS a grand conspiracy. Once you are prepared to accept the possibility it becomes extremely clear

Accepting the possibility of a grand conspiracy does not mean there is one. Why can't conspiraloons understand this? Why do they think they have the monopoly on being able to envisage situations? There's still that pesky evidence thing that is needed to link the two statements.

There is a possibility that aliens were responsible for 911. Why aren't the conspiraloons prepared to accept this as a possibility? Why isn't it investigated in great depth on internet forums? Why are they burying their heads in the sand over this????
 
Well, I am fed up with it Jazzz, I get about ten people trying to convert me a week. It is very wearisome.

''Barking instructions?'' So I am then only person on urban 75 who says conspiracy theories are daft, am I? What are you on about? Where am I barking?

''There is a grand conspiracy''. Yeah, yeah, you are in deep, I know. It's an article of faith. I know.

I might as well argue with a Jehovah's Witness.

I don't think you have really grasped what I am saying in my post either, but never mind.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
So he's a dreadlocked rent boy now?

Homophobe :mad:

Are you calling me a homophobe?! :mad:

Oh yes, the emotiocon of anger grants me special powers when confronting those who are morally inferior.....

The present banking system is the creation of a conspiracy. It really is controlled by a few hundred men. What are the WTO, World Bank, IMF etc. if not the machinations of a diabolical few? Just thought I`d inject some realism to the situation.

Whether you believe these same economic overlords, having created the power to buy the world, are doing so is for yourselves to decide. I`d say given the nature of those who lust for power.....well you know what I think.
 
"Deal with it. Live it. Engage with it. Step away from the realms of paranoia and ceaseless, pointless speculation and if you want change, make it happen."

Sounds like instructions to me.

it's not an 'article of faith' - it's simply having a different worldview. In fact, one that is less certain, less ordered.
 
Jazzz said:
"Deal with it. Live it. Engage with it. Step away from the realms of paranoia and ceaseless, pointless speculation and if you want change, make it happen."

Sounds like instructions to me.

it's not an 'article of faith' - it's simply having a different worldview. In fact, one that is less certain, less ordered.
* Cough*

badger kitten said:
The world is a messy, fucked up, chaotic, beautiful place. It is what we make it. There is no shadowy force behind everything, it doesn't all link together, so if you ask the right questions enough times and join all the dots, all will become clear
 
Jazzz said:
"Deal with it. Live it. Engage with it. Step away from the realms of paranoia and ceaseless, pointless speculation and if you want change, make it happen."

Sounds like instructions to me.

it's not an 'article of faith' - it's simply having a different worldview. In fact, one that is less certain, less ordered.


It was an attempt at a nod at the Desiderata, but never mind, Jazz
 
But yet again you begin with the assumption that the belief of those who question 9/11 is based on mere flights of fancy.

200+ smoking guns http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html, what about van bulow, meacher, shayler? What about the families of the victims? What about ex-military people?, what about former intelligence analysts? They`re all lunatics as well? Yes its the officials who are the sane ones.....they`re on TV... You`d rather trust the word of some mad dog killers in suits than listen to the people around you? What reason do I have to try and mislead anyone?! Whereas they have the world to gain. Common sense?

9/11 was an inside job and i`ve been banned for saying it. 9/11 remains an inside job funded by the ISI, strung by the CIA with Cheney giving them all the help they needed.

I`ll even run through it ALL, if u want. No wait... I`ll be banned because somethings are evil to say :rolleyes:
 
Azrael23 said:
Wealthy businessmen, editor.

To whom you provide "services", you make me sick.
What the fuck are you on about, you fucking weirdo?

What "services" am I providing to what "wealthy businessmen"?

And even if I was, why does it make you "sick"?

:confused:
 
I wasn`t talking about rent boys, thats your own strange mind.

It was supposed to be a poor disjointed attempt at accusing you of working for "the services", taking the piss out of the ill-conceived(sp?) notion that we`re all paranoiud lunatics.

But yeah....
 
Azrael23 said:
I wasn`t talking about rent boys, thats your own strange mind.

It was supposed to be a poor disjointed attempt at accusing you of working for "the services"

But yeah....
Please explain what the fuck you're on about.

What "wealthy businessmen" am I "providing services" for and why does it make you "sick?"
 
Editor, you provide lemon meringue to wealthy camels in mozambique.

Would you now like a detailed explaination of exactly how you do so, and what I mean by my statement? :D
 
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