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    Lazy Llama

Nicola Sturgeon's time is up

According to the Guardian, its for using money donated to specific independence campaigning for general party uses. Which is the kind of thing that happens all the time and is fine if you are in a wonderfully united organisation (or you can, at least, get away with it generally) but asking for trouble in a factionalised one.
 
belboid said:
According to the Guardian, its for using money donated to specific independence campaigning for general party uses. Which is the kind of thing that happens all the time and is fine if you are in a wonderfully united organisation (or you can, at least, get away with it generally) but asking for trouble in a fictionalised one.
Click to expand...
The malcontents have tended to be Salmond sympathisers. Which is why I’ve not paid much attention, possibly wrongly so.
 
belboid said:
According to the Guardian, its for using money donated to specific independence campaigning for general party uses. Which is the kind of thing that happens all the time and is fine if you are in a wonderfully united organisation (or you can, at least, get away with it generally) but asking for trouble in a fictionalised one.
Click to expand...

I can well understand why SNP types would be fuming if that was the case, but what law - warranting the cops raiding their house - is allegedly being broken if that's what he did?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
I can well understand why SNP types would be fuming if that was the case, but what law - warranting the cops raiding their house - is allegedly being broken if that's what he did?
Click to expand...
All depends exactly how things are set up and how the monies were donated. If they formally set up a 'second referendum campaign' and asked for donations to it, then using those monies for any other purpose is obtaining money using false pretences, or fraudulent accounting. (terms may vary in Scottish law).
 
Smokeandsteam said:
I can well understand why SNP types would be fuming if that was the case, but what law - warranting the cops raiding their house - is allegedly being broken if that's what he did?
Click to expand...
Aye. It’s the sort of thing that infuriates the broader independence movement, which is generally furious with the way the SNP steamrollers the movement as a whole. Complaints were probably raised by people attached to niche rabbit hole blogs. I can just imagine the sort of person obsessed by the details.

The SNP has become very entitled, in exactly the way that Labour in Scotland were when they lost so much ground to the SNP. And they do see themselves as the official independence movement. The Yes branches are basically SNP constituency parties meeting on another night of the month.

But if people donated to, say, Yes Scotland, that does not equate to them donating to the SNP.
 
It's an interesting display of the fickle nature of power - 2 years ago you'd have not bet against Sturgeon being FM in 2030, indeed PM of an indy Scotland, the two of them were the absolute nexus of political power in Scotland with a grip so tight, and not far off absolute power of patronage.

In the blink of an eye it's gone like smoke in the wind - the very definition of the king is dead, long like the king.

Would anyone be surprised if she didn't stand as an MSP in the next elections?

I still admire Sturgeon, but fuck me, politics is a game with brutal rules...
 
HoratioCuthbert said:
If anyone wants to read this again from THE FLAMBOYANT HIERARCHY!!! guy, this article appears to cover some of the spending stuff. Bump, bump.
Click to expand...
Yes, only skim-read that bit last time, but here it is:

“Murky finances

The party was also starving of funds. The SNP faces, again, a class problem when it comes to financing its election campaigns and routine work. It is neither an old-school social democratic party with access to union support, nor a traditional centre right outfit with many large business donors. The modern party is a product of a populist wave, and these small donors became its main financial resource. This necessitated the strategy of diminishing returns by milking independence sentiment.

In 2017, something called Ref.scot appeared. It presented itself as a campaigning hub for an independence referendum campaign. Close inspection found it to be an SNP venture. It gathered data and funds from independence supporters, before abruptly shutting down months later.

With members leaving and local branches dying, desperation for funds grew. In 2019 another funding and data-mining campaign was launched, again on the false pretence of an independence campaign. This time, the deception was even more callous. The new website was called ‘Yes’ – an obvious attempt to stoke nostalgia for 2014. Though the small print informed the careful reader that this too was an SNP front (“you are donating to a political party”) everything about the website was designed to give the impression that it was the resurrection of the 2014, cross-party Yes campaign, a huge decentralised movement with great emotional resonance for tens of thousands of people.

Some £600,000 was raised between these two cynical ventures. The monies disappeared into the SNP cashflow, and up to £500,000 remains unaccounted for to this day.

After complaints from members of the public, a Police Scotland investigation began. With no solution to the party’s money problems in sight, Murrell – Sturgeon’s husband and the leading officer of the SNP – made a personal loan of £107,000. Sturgeon denies any knowledge of when this loan was made, and two days before the press conference announcing her departure, reports speculated that the police investigation had spread to Murrell’s loan. Sturgeon adamantly refused to answer questions on party finances as she left the podium.”
 
kebabking said:
It's an interesting display of the fickle nature of power - 2 years ago you'd have not bet against Sturgeon being FM in 2030, indeed PM of an indy Scotland, the two of them were the absolute nexus of political power in Scotland with a grip so tight, and not far off absolute power of patronage.

In the blink of an eye it's gone like smoke in the wind - the very definition of the king is dead, long like the king.

Would anyone be surprised if she didn't stand as an MSP in the next elections?

I still admire Sturgeon, but fuck me, politics is a game with brutal rules...
Click to expand...
As clausewitz said, politics is war carried out by other means
 
kebabking said:
It's an interesting display of the fickle nature of power - 2 years ago you'd have not bet against Sturgeon being FM in 2030, indeed PM of an indy Scotland, the two of them were the absolute nexus of political power in Scotland with a grip so tight, and not far off absolute power of patronage.

In the blink of an eye it's gone like smoke in the wind - the very definition of the king is dead, long like the king.

Would anyone be surprised if she didn't stand as an MSP in the next elections?

I still admire Sturgeon, but fuck me, politics is a game with brutal rules...
Click to expand...

I can't say I share your admiration, but your central point is a good one. The collapse has been spectacular and seemingly a hard fall too. Doesn't bode well for Humza either who is, after all, marketing himself as continuity Sturgeon and her brand of 'radical' waffle to offer cover for neo-liberal politics and supplicancy to the institutions.

However, it says something equally important about Labour that there is no sense that their politial offer will be able to seize power in Scotland as a result.
 
I have been involved in some charitable or political campaigns where we've been given money and yes, it is very important to spend the money in a way that accords with donor's wishes and account for it.

This is why organisations and parties try to get their donors to make a general donation to the party or organisation rather than to a particular purpose or account. That way it is up to receiver ultimately to decide how it is spent.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
I can't say I share your admiration, but your central point is a good one. The collapse has been spectacular and seemingly a hard fall too. Doesn't bode well for Humza either who is, after all, marketing himself as continuity Sturgeon and her brand of 'radical' waffle to offer cover for neo-liberal politics and supplicancy to the institutions.

However, it says something equally important about Labour that there is no sense that their politial offer will be able to seize power in Scotland as a result.
Click to expand...

Or indeed, any of the unionist parties.

Successful leadership of the SNP now suddenly means containing the fall out from whatever has been done here.

If anyone at all can get their act together it will be all over for the Nats. The leadership campaign was toxic & divisive & this threatens to be a lot worse.
 
steeplejack said:
Or indeed, any of the unionist parties.

Successful leadership of the SNP now suddenly means containing the fall out from whatever has been done here.

If anyone at all can get their act together it will be all over for the Nats. The leadership campaign was toxic & divisive & this threatens to be a lot worse.
Click to expand...

Yeah agree, but The Times carried an inteview with Starmer this week where Labour was spinning that it was 'back' in Scotland and was on course to capture 20 plus seats off the nationalists at the GE. There seems to be zero evidence to back up the claim or any set of political ideas to add substance to the boast. More likely is disengagement by voters in working class areas.
 
100%. A Labour revival here would have been much more likely under Corbyn who was seen as authentic and doing the job a Labour leader should.

Starmer is a Manchurian candidate, Leaderbot 3.0, a sulphurous covering of political mist.

For those who’ve heard of him, of course.
 
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