Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Nicola Sturgeon's time is up

Coloniser and colonisee are often the same people, of course. Many Scots were enthusiastic and successful colonisers of the British Empire. I don't think calling Scotland a colony is a very useful way of looking at it tbh. And I would say that since devolution Scots today enjoy more democracy than the English.
 
I remember back in the day Ernesto used to equate class historically with Anglo-Norman rule, and while there is of course some truth in it any strictly ethnic reading of it was dodgy then and is dodgy now. Class is the lens through which to read this, not ethnicity.
A fair chunk of the Anglo-Saxon nobility did survive the conquest IIRC, certainly remember mention of some later chronicler who was of Saxon descent and younger brother of some noble house and a quick search threw up this mention of one landowner who did well out of it: After the Norman Conquest | History Today
 
A fair chunk of the Anglo-Saxon nobility did survive the conquest IIRC, certainly remember mention of some later chronicler who was of Saxon descent and younger brother of some noble house and a quick search threw up this mention of one landowner who did well out of it: After the Norman Conquest | History Today
Indeed. It would be bizarre to suggest that waves of invasion replaced populations. What was replaced (or rather modified) was the dominant cultures of the ruling classes.

This is why I wanted a definition of colonisation earlier. Fanon would be a good place to start.
 
Joe Gilgun Misfits GIF - Joe Gilgun Misfits Rudy Wade GIFs
 
It’s complicated, isn’t it? And for clarity, anyone who says “the English” subjected, ruled or colonised either Ireland or Scotland, or indeed anywhere else, is a wankatron twat.
In the unfinished part of her trilogy about political philosophy Ellen Meiksins Wood was going to look at the Smith the like, the Scottish philosophers that were crucial to the formation of economics from English capitalism.

She starts to talk about it in book 2 but not in detail sadly. :( Such a loss to the movement
 
Off topic I know but just in case anyone is interested

Liberty & Property - Ellen Meiksins Wood

On the other side of the Channel, it was Scottish more than English political economists who developed something analogous to the French conception of progress, but they did so against the immediate background of English capitalism. The Scots, in fact, theorized English capitalism more effectively than did English theorists, no doubt because they were more conscious of its difference, its otherness, seen from the vantage point of the Scottish experience. The great Scottish intellectuals were very conscious of the contrast between English prosperity and Scottish poverty at the time of Union in 1707 and the hopes of economic improvement that had motivated many of its supporters. While the Scots more than the English wrote from an intellectual perspective with certain self-conscious affinities to the French, the example of England’s material wealth was ever present in their conceptions of history and human development. At the heart of Adam Smith’s political economy, like David Hume’s history of England, is the English model of progress.

The Scottish Enlightenment was no less interested than the French in the whole range of progress – advances in knowledge, culture, politics, morality – but the distinctive development of the English economy was always at the core. One of the classics of the anglophone literature on progress, Adam Ferguson’s Essay on the History of Civil Society, is, for example, a very wide-ranging story of progress, with many different aspects, social, political, cultural, as well as economic. The critical turning-point is identified in Part II, ‘Of the History of Rude Nations’, where Ferguson draws a line between ‘Rude Nations prior to the Establishment of Property’ and ‘Rude Nations, under the Impressions of Property and Interest’. Beyond the invention of property that constitutes the dividing line between savagery and barbarism among ‘rude’ nations, the minimal condition for moving beyond rudeness to refinement is the division of labour; but it is the advent of commercial society that sets in train a distinctive capacity to sustain progress by directing the pursuit of individual self-interest to progressive development.

Commerce does, to be sure, endanger civic virtue, and political wisdom is required to preserve it; but the mechanisms of the market, and precisely those imperatives of competition that threaten virtue, are for Ferguson the only conceivable engine of self-sustaining progress. He does not attribute to the market quite the same role in integrating selfish motivations as does his friend Adam Smith, who eventually sought a solution in the disciplines of competition; and Ferguson still assigns to the political domain a greater role in preserving social bonds and moral order. But there is no mistaking his conviction, shared by Smith and Hume, that whatever may have been accomplished by the evolution of the human mind, it is commercial mechanisms and the enhancement of productivity for profit that set in motion progress as a self-sustaining process.The advance of scientific knowledge as the engine of progress seems, then, to be displaced by a different kind of historical mechanism, a self-sustaining economic growth that, in historical reality, existed at that time only in England. Much the same idea of progress appears in the work of Adam Smith, and it is here that we can see the implications of such an argument for conceptions of equality. It may be true that Smith shared Condorcet’s commitment to equality, as well as liberty and justice; but for the Scot the burden of progressive development falls unambiguously on the market. The desirable effects of equitable distribution are, above all, a consequence of market mechanisms. The natural outcome of economic growth will be not only to raise the living standards of the poor but also to rebalance the distribution between profit and wages, on the grounds that the greater the amount of ‘stock’ or capital, the lower the rate of profit in relation to wages.
 
In the unfinished part of her trilogy about political philosophy Ellen Meiksins Wood was going to look at the Smith the like, the Scottish philosophers that were crucial to the formation of economics from English capitalism.

She starts to talk about it in book 2 but not in detail sadly. :( Such a loss to the movement
Not just capitalism. The enlightenment started in Edinburgh even as late as Darwin thats the uni he went to.. Cambridge had its part what with Newton and hid input on physics and maths but Scotland has had a major part in shaping the world even if the efforts of Logie Baird, AG Bell, and A Fleming are questionable
 
The question that poses is how to define colonisation.


Think it’s worth considering that the highlands were effectively denuded and recolonised by the lowland Scot’s and that the lowland Scot’s, particularly the elite were invested in and took a proactive part in further colonisation as the years went on.
 
Think it’s worth considering that the highlands were effectively denuded and recolonised by the lowland Scot’s and that the lowland Scot’s, particularly the elite were invested in and took a proactive part in further colonisation as the years went on.

Again, that's a description which really doesn't recognise the significance of class.
 
It's a strange old thread this, discussion of class and name-dropping Fanon amidst parlour game whimsy. It's like a Radio 4 game show on strong mushrooms, hosted via the medium of ouija board by Nicholas Parsons and fed through one of Delia Derbyshire's old analogue synthesizers...

To be (briefly) serious, the panoply of headlines today from down south suggest that the London media understands Scotland less than ever, no surprise that the Tory party is in the same boat. Ludicrous claims that Sunak somehow faced down NS over gender reform and forced her out, that somehow Labour is now back as a serious force in Scotland, absurd bombast that the idea of Scottish independence has been "set back a decade / a generation" and that the "dream is fading".

None of these claims are remotely true, yet they are being propagated and lapped up by "professionals" whoi apparently know sweet fuck all about the subject at hand.

Nicola Sturgeon was a formaidable and recognisable leader of the SNP and the broader independence movement's figurehead. She attracted support from an enormous cross section of Scottish society and some admiration from most who didn't vote for her. That cause continues and does not fall with the ending of one career, especially one that seems to have been ended on its own terms. I am sure that if another referendum ever happens in the next 10-15 years Nicola Sturgeon will be one of a Yes campaign's most prominent leaders.

I'm not particularly sad about her resignation but left shaking my head about some of the very, very bizarre takes from Westminster-focused hacks. At least parallel-universe interpretations from the main parties are to be expected.
 
Last edited:
It's like a Radio 4 game show on strong mushrooms, hosted via the medium of ouija board by Nicholas Parsons and fed through one of Delia Derbyshire's old analogue synthesizers...
I’d probably listen to that to be fair.

But come on, the class discussion and even the Fanon name drop (both on me) were justified! They weren’t just gratuitous.
 
To be (briefly) serious, the panoply of headlines today from down south suggest that the London media understands Scotland less than ever, no surprise that the Tory party is in the same boat. Ludicrous claims that Sunak somehow faced down NS over gender reform and forced her out, that somehow Labour is now back as a serious force in Scotland, absurd bombast that the idea of Scottish independence has been "set back a decade / a generation" and that the "dream is fading".

None of these claims are remotely true, yet they are being propagated and lapped up by "professionals" whoi apparently know sweet fuck all about the subject at hand.
Yep. I've lived down south for a long time but I'm still surprised by how ignorant yet confident while spouting utter bollocks the media down here is.

(The Ruth Davidson love thing was another example of this and don't get me started on Indyref. :rolleyes:)
 
Presented without comment.




The Glasgow Cabbie guy who arranged that is a proper gammon cunt (you should be able to find the Facebook group pretty easily). Regardless of what you think about some trans rights issues, some of the stuff he was pushing out is fairly horrid and tips well into outright hostility towards trans people. Also an undercurrent of homophobia (though apparently some of his best friends are lesbians).
 
Could also go in the Why the BBC is shit type thread

09jzfwmc6lia1.jpg

:eek:
Congratulations to brogdale's mum on her new job writing for the BBC.
Maybe Sue can find out when she visits the museum, but I'm pretty sure the football club is after his time.
I think this is a distraction from the real issue we need to solve here: did Robert the Bruce like jazz?
 
It’s complicated, isn’t it? And for clarity, anyone who says “the English” subjected, ruled or colonised either Ireland or Scotland, or indeed anywhere else, is a wankatron twat.

It's said again and again in Ireland, or at least when still lived there. And meet people who repeat it but mostly Americans these days.
 
Not a fan of his in general but you did read this bit, right?

'El-Nakla launched her legal action after the Care Inspectorate found the nursery had failed to “promote fairness, equality and respect”, and instructed changes in its procedures, after a complaint from the couple in August 2021.'
Yup, weird thing to focus on. So many things to pick him up on. The way he ran the NHS, for example. Being part of the neoliberal Sturgeon establishment. That sort of thing.
 
Not a fan of his in general but you did read this bit, right?

'El-Nakla launched her legal action after the Care Inspectorate found the nursery had failed to “promote fairness, equality and respect”, and instructed changes in its procedures, after a complaint from the couple in August 2021.'
Yes I also read this bit...
“It bears repeating that, despite some extremely misleading headlines and spurious allegations, the Care Inspectorate identified administrative processes for improvement which had nothing to do with discrimination, because there never was any discrimination.
Discrimination was the legal complaint, none was found ..........they played the victim card
 
Back
Top Bottom