Nicola Sturgeon's time is up

[Yossarian]

Trump says goodbye to a "crazed leftist"

 

[friedaweed]

Trump says goodbye to a "crazed leftist"

View attachment 363328

To be fair she could retire very satisfied with her time in office if she wound that cunt up so much he had to post that load of shite.

 

[MickiQ]

Earning a personalised rant off Trump is a badge of honour

 

[krtek a houby]

Indeed the Scots came from Ireland in the first place.

So much movement between our two countries.

Aside from others joking about the GPO etc, why do hasn't Scotland hasn't had a 1916 moment or a more active resistance? What do you reckon?

 

[PR1Berske]

Presented without comment.

 

[krtek a houby]

So, having left the country in splinters, she now decides to walk away. Beggars belief.

Would you like a loan of Gerry Adams?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Earning a personalised rant off Trump is a badge of honour

Definitely must be tempting to put forward a “build a skyscraper on trumps golf course “ bill as a parting act

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Earning a personalised rant off Trump is a badge of honour

I was surprised he'd paid enough attention to remember who she was at first...but then the golf course thing made it make sense.

 

[danny la rouge]

So much movement between our two countries.

Aside from others joking about the GPO etc, why do hasn't Scotland hasn't had a 1916 moment or a more active resistance? What do you reckon?

That would take a long time to answer fully. The short answer is the two countries have very different histories.

Scotland did not have a tradition of nationalist militias like Ireland did. After the Jacobite risings, the Highlands clans were systematically demilitarised and the population subdued by laws and state military infrastructure. Place names surviving today attest to those times: Fort William, Fort Augustus, and the military roads that still form the basis of the road network.

After the 1820 Radical Rising, when the leaders were executed or deported, Scottish Home Rule sentiment was carried by the labour movement, and stayed there really until the 1970s when the SNP made electoral gains.

 

[Idris2002]

So much movement between our two countries.

Aside from others joking about the GPO etc, why do hasn't Scotland hasn't had a 1916 moment or a more active resistance? What do you reckon?

Short answer: we were colonized, the Scots weren't.

 

[Serge Forward]

And let's not forget, they did have their Red Clydeside

 

[danny la rouge]

Short answer: we were colonized, the Scots weren't.

The question that poses is how to define colonisation.

 

[Idris2002]

The question that poses is how to define colonisation.

Is your country's staple food a tuber from South America, introduced to your country by an Elizabethan pirate?

(or is it impossible to tell after you've stuck it in the deep fat fryer?)

 

[danny la rouge]

Is your country's staple food a tuber from South America, introduced to your country by an Elizabethan pirate?

(or is it impossible to tell after you've stuck it in the deep fat fryer?)

Is that your definition of colonised?

 

[Idris2002]

Is that your definition of colonised?

Does your definition of colonized involve your monarch inheriting your neighbouring country's throne after the last of her dynasty dies without an heir?

 

[danny la rouge]

Does your definition of colonized involve your monarch inheriting your neighbouring country's throne after the last of her dynasty dies without an heir?

You’re the one who is making claims about colonisation. I’m not a nationalist. Im not getting into a poverty competition with you, that would be fruitless and puerile. But monarchs are not populations. That’s just basic stuff.

 

[Idris2002]

You’re the one who is making claims about colonisation. I’m not a nationalist. Im not getting into a poverty competition with you, that would be fruitless and puerile. But monarchs are not populations. That’s just basic stuff.

Oh come on, it's no fun if you don't rise to the bait. The transition from the Tudors to the Stuarts, and the dual monarchy which derived from it, indicates that the integration of Scotland into what would eventually become the British state occurred in a way that significantly different from that experienced by Ireland. Hence the very different patterns taken by nationalist politics in the two countries in the following centuries.

"At least the Irish got their country back, or most of it anyway".

 

[danny la rouge]

Oh come on, it's no fun if you don't rise to the bait. The transition from the Tudors to the Stuarts, and the dual monarchy which derived from it, indicates that the integration of Scotland into what would eventually become the British state occurred in a way that significantly different from that experienced by Ireland. Hence the very different patterns taken by nationalist politics in the two countries in the following centuries.

"At least the Irish got their country back, or most of it anyway".

Yes, a different history. I said that.

But the claim you made was thatScotland wasn’t colonised, which does demand a definition of colonisation.

Yes, James VI of Scotland became also James I of England. But the Union of Crowns was not the Union of Parliaments. That happened just over a century afterwards. And there were particular circumstances around that, the biggest direct contributor being to do with the failure of the Scottish ruling class in their own colonisation project (Darien).

Before that James VI, though, carried out his own campaign of self colonisation. Rather than dividing his time between Edinburgh and London he made London his court and began the cultural self Anglization process of the Scottish ruling class, which led to the policy of suppressing the Gaelic and Scots languages for the population.

One of the differences between Scotland and Ireland was that the ruling class in Scotland was subsumed into the Unionist structures, as a client class. Home Rule sentiment in Scotland was a labour movement phenomenon. In Ireland, the Home Rule movement was replete with leaders from the Anglo-Irish Dublin elite. At least part of Ireland’s client ruling elite were, or became, nationalist. And that played a huge part in the different trajectories.

Class, in short, is not separable from the question.

 

[danny la rouge]

Sorry if that wasn’t funny enough. So let me just say “munchy box” for balance.

 

[gosub]

Anyone read anything sensible on why she has gone today?

Headline in one of the papers about Nicolas drink problem is unrelated

 

[gosub]

Yes, a different history. I said that.

But the claim you made was thatScotland wasn’t colonised, which does demand a definition of colonisation.

Yes, James VI of Scotland became also James I of England. But the Union of Crowns was not the Union of Parliaments. That happened just over a century afterwards. And there were particular circumstances around that, the biggest direct contributor being to do with the failure of the Scottish ruling class in their own colonisation project (Darien).

Before that James VI, though, carried out his own campaign of self colonisation. Rather than dividing his time between Edinburgh and London he made London his court and began the cultural self Anglization process of the Scottish ruling class, which led to the policy of suppressing the Gaelic and Scots languages for the population.

One of the differences between Scotland and Ireland was that the ruling class in Scotland was subsumed into the Unionist structures, as a client class. Home Rule sentiment in Scotland was a labour movement phenomenon. In Ireland, the Home Rule movement was replete with leaders from the Anglo-Irish Dublin elite. At least part of Ireland’s client ruling elite were, or became, nationalist. And that played a huge part in the different trajectories.

Class, in short, is not separable from the question.

Except ruling class back in day most likely had estates in more than one part of the country.


In terms of land owners (whom have enjoyed democracy far longer than themselves that dont) Scotland is quite well represented in the Lords

 

[danny la rouge]

Except ruling class back in day most likely had estates in more than one part of the country.

That’s not an “except”, that’s just a point of information. I’m not making a nationalist case. I’m making a class case.

 

[JimW]

Rogues by the parcel.

 

[danny la rouge]

Rogues by the parcel.

Indeed so.

 

[DotCommunist]

Except ruling class back in day most likely had estates in more than one part of the country.

the local aristocracy here in kettering is a branch of scottish nobility. Theres an Earl of Dalkieth pub in town which I frown at as I pass on my way to better establishments.

 

[danny la rouge]

the local aristocracy here in kettering is a branch of scottish nobility. Theres an Earl of Dalkieth pub in town which I frown at as I pass on my way to better establishments.

And the Dukes of Leinster had lands in Oxfordshire.

Any attempt to simply equate class and ethnicity is fraught with danger.

 

[danny la rouge]

I remember back in the day Ernesto used to equate class historically with Anglo-Norman rule, and while there is of course some truth in it any strictly ethnic reading of it was dodgy then and is dodgy now. Class is the lens through which to read this, not ethnicity.

 

[danny la rouge]

Robert de Brus was of course himself a Norman lord. (Probably born in Essex).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I remember back in the day Ernesto used to equate class historically with Anglo-Norman rule, and while there is of course some truth in it any strictly ethnic reading of it was dodgy then and is dodgy now. Class is the lens through which to read this, not ethnicity.

Logically, that means that the English were also colonised. The way that the Scottish working classes have been exploited isn't any different from the way the English working classes have been exploited.

 

[danny la rouge]

Logically, that means that the English were also colonised. The way that the Scottish working classes have been exploited isn't any different from the way the English working classes have been exploited.

It’s complicated, isn’t it? And for clarity, anyone who says “the English” subjected, ruled or colonised either Ireland or Scotland, or indeed anywhere else, is a wankatron twat.