NH Carnival 2011

[BlackArab]

I don't live in Bristol, but I went in 2009 and last year. Didn't make it this year due to uni, which I was pretty gutted about to be honest. Got loads of photos of the parade last year, I love the fact it was mostly kids from the local schools, think that's a really nice thing. Used to live in leicester and go to the carnival there, but that one isn't really "community" based so much, i think St Pauls has got a lot going for it in that respect. Went to Birmingham carnival a couple of weeks back, but had to leave before the parade arrived, which is when it all kicks off really, so I missed out on all the good parts

I've read there's issues with funding for St Pauls which is a shame, the text donation thing apparently wasn't very popular - i donated even though I didn't go, so that surprises me. seems there's been a few people saying there wasn't much in that way of people shaking buckets, don't know how true that is, but that's got to be quite lucrative when people have had a few beers.

The carnivals always been part of my life, I was one of those kids who used whose schools put on a float. The funding problem is a serious one, can't go into to many details about what happened as enquiries still going on but yes the bucket collection was not enough amongst other things. Similar to NH ours has become a victim of it's own success and numbers have soared in recent years making things difficult to manage. We have resecured some funding but will have to decide how to take things forward in the next few months.

 

[WWWeed]

This concept of ticketing and guestlists at notting hill soundsystems isnt new. Those turds over at redbull have been doing a guestlist only event at carnival for the last few years. Each year they set up a boarded off area where portobello road goes under the A40 with bouncers controlling the entrance (making sure only people on the guestlist can come in).

I know the pubs and clubs do tickets and guestlists (which I dont really have a problem with) but it's a bit different when this is happening on streets (and at events) paid for by taxpayers. I found out about all this a few years back by being told I wasn't on the guestlist so couldnt come in, which kinda pissed me off. Luckily its not my kinda music so I just went to the usual rigs I go to and had a great time!

 

[BlackArab]

Wtf?!

But then, as VP says, that would be perfect for the establishment in order to gain more control over the Carnival - not only ticketing, but their desire to uproot it entirely and move it to somewhere like Hyde Park, and eventually sanitise it into becoming 'yet another commercial music festival'.

The Respect festival wasn't safe in this Mayor's hands for very long.

The ticketing thing could be a method of just controlling numbers in particular areas. Since the deaths at that rave in Germany, the authorities have become increasingly concerned about similair things happening here and are putting pressure on festival/carnival organisers to pre-empt this by putting in stronger measures
of crowd control. The last time I was at NH was in 1998 and at times got caught up in dangerous situations due to the sheer volume of people so bad I haven't been back since. My mates and I at one point linked arms and surrounded two young girls to stop them from being crushed underfoot by a surging crowd. Tickets are not a bad thing if they prevent deaths.

 

[WWWeed]

and how many people have died at notting hill as a result of crowds? The police manage the crowds and close off streets when they get too crowded. Tickets or Guestlists are not needed and go against everything carnival is about.

 

[ska invita]

This concept of ticketing and guestlists at notting hill soundsystems isnt new. Those turds over at redbull have been doing a guestlist only event at carnival for the last few years. Each year they set up a boarded off area where portobello road goes under the A40 with bouncers controlling the entrance (making sure only people on the guestlist can come in).

I only noticed that this year (supposedly been happening 3 years now). Grrr Red Bull - great events on paper, but something about them winds me up no end - I do feel like Im in an advert at them.

Good Times does have the biggest crowd (and it would be bigger if the space was bigger), so maybe they want to 'solve' that particular sounds problem with tickets < pure speculation. There is no way on earth you could make the whole of NH gated and ticketed - especially as its a free event, so maybe they're talking about ticketing off little corners. I think the whole idea is so fucked up it will never fly.

St.Pauls carnivals always been part of my life, I was one of those kids who used whose schools put on a float. The funding problem is a serious one, can't go into to many details about what happened as enquiries still going on but yes the bucket collection was not enough amongst other things. Similar to NH ours has become a victim of it's own success and numbers have soared in recent years making things difficult to manage. We have resecured some funding but will have to decide how to take things forward in the next few months.

I remember Lilt* canned sugary drinks sponsored NH Carnival one year (possibly more than once) - there were banners down every street, which looked pretty shit and annoying, but there you go. Which brings me back to Red Bull. Im sure sponsors can be found, its just about trying to find a sponsor that doesnt make you want to rip down every banner, hoarding, etc. < which is hard. But better that than no carnival I guess - though with NH carnival no mayor would dare to stop it now, financial meltdown or not.

PLans to restructure NH carnival have been going round for years now - my impression is the organising committee are doing a good job of standing firm - though another rumour has it that this really might be the last year its in its current format and that 2012 will be crunch time. Who knows.

*HEre come the LIlt Man was a catchy tv jingle though

 

[ska invita]

and how many people have died at notting hill as a result of crowds? The police manage the crowds and close off streets when they get too crowded.

Which works - but I tried to walk through Sancha Panza last year and it was a bit scarily packed. My solution would be bigger rigs (funded by the art council or lottery tickets or whatnot) spread out across bigger areas, so more dancing space!

 

[stethoscope]

Unfortunately, watching the Tories knee-jerk response to the riots, I'm not entirely convinced that ticketing would primarily be about safety (although I can certainly see it being 'sold' as that on the surface). I dunno, capitalist-segregation imposed by the West London ruling elite on what is supposed to be a free street party celebrating West London's Afro-Carib history doesn't sit comfortably with me.

They'll be a VIP area next where politicians and the rich can 'enjoy the spectacle' without being to close to the 'hoodlums'.

 

[stethoscope]

Good Times does have the biggest crowd (and it would be bigger if the space was bigger), so maybe they want to 'solve' that particular sounds problem with tickets < pure speculation. There is no way on earth you could make the whole of NH gated and ticketed - especially as its a free event, so maybe they're talking about ticketing off little corners. I think the whole idea is so fucked up it will never fly.

I remember Good Times getting sponsorship with Budweiser and that felt a little 'wrong', even though the way that Carnival like many festivals has swung today, the sheer money needed to organise it meant that getting sponsorship from these quarters in some cases is the only way that systems like GT could afford it.

I remember Lilt* canned sugary drinks sponsored NH Carnival one year (possibly more than once) - there were banners down every street, which looked pretty shit and annoying, but there you go.

Yeah, I remember Lilt being one of the first big sponsors. Somehow, it still doesn't seem as invasive as the likes of Red Bull and how they advertise now.

 

[ska invita]

No need for VIP areas!

Perhaps partly because of the history of Carnival being what it is (born of race riots/attacks), the organising committee have a fair amount of power over politicians - I hope so anyway.

 

[stethoscope]

That fucking picture of Hague (and the one of him wearing a cap) just make me *shudder* everytime I see them!

 

[ska invita]

bless!

 

[BlackArab]

and how many people have died at notting hill as a result of crowds? The police manage the crowds and close off streets when they get too crowded. Tickets or Guestlists are not needed and go against everything carnival is about.

chill dude I didn't say they had, I've just got a different insight and perspective about things recently having been involved in the planning of our own. It's all about prevention of the worse case scenarios and taking steps to avoid it, let's not forget for different reasons we have seen deaths at festivals recently in Belgium and the US.

 

[BlackArab]

I only noticed that this year (supposedly been happening 3 years now). Grrr Red Bull - great events on paper, but something about them winds me up no end - I do feel like Im in an advert at them.

Good Times does have the biggest crowd (and it would be bigger if the space was bigger), so maybe they want to 'solve' that particular sounds problem with tickets < pure speculation. There is no way on earth you could make the whole of NH gated and ticketed - especially as its a free event, so maybe they're talking about ticketing off little corners. I think the whole idea is so fucked up it will never fly.

I remember Lilt* canned sugary drinks sponsored NH Carnival one year (possibly more than once) - there were banners down every street, which looked pretty shit and annoying, but there you go. Which brings me back to Red Bull. Im sure sponsors can be found, its just about trying to find a sponsor that doesnt make you want to rip down every banner, hoarding, etc. < which is hard. But better that than no carnival I guess - though with NH carnival no mayor would dare to stop it now, financial meltdown or not.

PLans to restructure NH carnival have been going round for years now - my impression is the organising committee are doing a good job of standing firm - though another rumour has it that this really might be the last year its in its current format and that 2012 will be crunch time. Who knows.

*HEre come the LIlt Man was a catchy tv jingle though

tbh I'd welcome sponsorship from Lilt if it helps us keep the festival going, always liked the drink myself anyway, most people I know in the community wouldn't give a damn about sponsorship unless it was something really objectionable. We've had the Army down here for a few years now, they were happy to pay for a stall, funny enough they said they had a good reception from the local AC community, even getting big ups from a soundsystem, the only objections to them came from white radicals/anarchists.

 

[ska invita]

Just been told (not that its a secret or anything) that Digital Soundboy are taking over Sir Loyds on the Monday, deejays Shy FX, Breakage, Toddla T, Redlight and Donaeo. I think im going Sunday only though this year - will be whimpering in bed on Monday

Weather forecast is set to be sunny Sat/Sun (not sure about Mon - well possibly rain in fact, according to todays sketchy 15 day forecast)

 

[WWWeed]

chill dude I didn't say they had, I've just got a different insight and perspective about things recently having been involved in the planning of our own. It's all about prevention of the worse case scenarios and taking steps to avoid it, let's not forget for different reasons we have seen deaths at festivals recently in Belgium and the US.

Hey it wasnt a dig at you. I am just a bit pissed off at what redbull are doing, and thinking it might encourage other people to do the same. It would would effectively destroy NHC for a lot of people.

Anyway the met have just posted this press release on their website which is surprisingly positive (and long):

The following is attributable to Commander Steve Rodhouse:

I'm Commander Steve Rodhouse the spokesperson for this year's Notting Hill Carnival and I'm here to outline for you our policing operation for the Carnival and the rest of London during the bank holiday weekend.

I'd also like to update you on our pre-event operation - Razorback - which is designed to target the small minority who we know want to ruin the event for the thousands who come to join in the spectacle of Carnival

We recognise that Carnival this year will be taking place in unusual and exceptional circumstances. The sequence of events that started on Saturday 6th August and continued on into the following week were unprecedented. Certainly unprecedented in respect of the impact they had on London as a city, its people, police, and other emergency services.

Since then we have fortunately not seen any repeat of that violence and disorder on our streets, but the Met does continue to deploy large numbers of officers across the Capital supported by staff from neighbouring forces. Now on the light of what has happened in London over those three nights it is only right that we review our operation for the Notting Hill Carnival. That review has taken place and we have made a number of amendments.

I do want to be clear though that the look and feel of this year's Carnival and our policing operation will not change. People need to know that if they want to come and have fun we will be there to make that happen.

Please bear in mind that the Notting Hill Carnival was already a large event for the MPS with every eventuality catered for. However we will have additional officers on duty. At Notting Hill specifically we will have a total of 5,500 officers on duty on Sunday and 6,500 on duty on Monday. But in addition to that we will have over 4,000 additional officers on duty across London as well as the thousands who are normally on duty over a weekend.

Some of those additional officers will come from forces outside London, through mutual aid arrangements, and the Met has cancelled all leave for staff and rearranged duties.

Across London those additional officers will be deployed across boroughs, working to local senior officers dealing with local policing issues. However they will be available to be deployed quickly if needed.

We've worked closely with the Carnival organisers, the local authorities of The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea Council and Westminster City Council. We have all looked at what collective action we can take to prevent such shocking and disgraceful scenes from marring Carnival.

We totally, from the MPS perspective, endorse and encourage the earlier start and finish times of the event this year. This year Carnival will finish at 19.00.

The organisers took the decision because of what has recently happened and a number of other factors and they will be providing additional stewards. We will be working very closely with those stewards to help reach the earlier close down time.

Our intelligence picture is still being developed as we approach the weekend and it will be kept under review right up to and during Carnival itself. At this stage it would be fair to say we have intelligence to suggest that some gangs want to come to Carnival and create trouble for us. Plus we know that some people believe we will be diverted from policing the rest of London due to the Notting Hill Carnival, leaving the rest of the Capital without a policing presence. This is not the case.

I must stress that that intelligence picture does need to be seen in context. Carnival is a unique and vibrant event that is attended by over a million people and actually in the context of such an event levels of crime and disorder are low and indeed are reducing. Yet we know in the past it has been rare for the event to pass off without a degree of low level disorder, particularly after dark. So given that, and the recent events in London, it is not surprising to have such an intelligence picture.

I want to say to those who want to come to corrupt this magnificent event you are not welcome. Please do not come. The Met will do everything in its power to make it as hard as possible for you.

To those who think the rest of London is vulnerable - we are not just focusing on policing Notting Hill - additional officers will be out on our streets across the city.

Our operation for Carnival draws on specialists and expertise from across our organisation and that operation has already started.

Our operation Razorback has already made 35 arrests and more will come in the coming days. We will carry out weapon sweeps - based on intelligence.

During the weekend itself dedicated teams of officers will be deployed away from the event - aimed at stopping potential trouble makers from even getting to the Carnival area. We will be using the skills of specialist officers and drawing on technology such as ANPR.

At points where people enter the Carnival footprint itself officers will be using a range of tactics including the appropriate use of stop and search and screening wands to seek for weapons.

Now we know that crimes involving victims continue to drop at Carnival, and given the numbers of people that attend levels of crime are low.

We know in the Met that the community and indeed the organisers support our approach to policing the event and want us to keep crime down. To do that we of course need everyone's help. We are determined that any criminal minority will not be allowed to ruin this event for those who wish to attend.

We know that Carnival is an important event in the Capital's calendar and we totally support it going ahead this year. We think that it is important to show that London is open for business.

 

[gavman]

Just a thought of the top of my head about how carnival might be restructured: what do you think about the idea to have sunday as the floats and carnival parade day, and then Monday for the soundsystems? In a way the sounds get in the way of the floats and vice versa - it might give the floats room to have a bit more fun, and vice versa?

i've never noticed that as an issue. i'd attended a few years before i bothered with the floats, and never do now. it's always been about the sound systems for me, and the two are kept separate for logistical reasons;
you can't drive a float through a pumping sound system, that'd just be dumb

 

[paolo]

"Now we know that crimes involving victims continue to drop at Carnival"

Good that they deftly (and appropriately) present crime levels measured by ones people care about rather than ones they mostly don't, i.e. personal drug possession.

 

[ska invita]

i've never noticed that as an issue. i'd attended a few years before i bothered with the floats, and never do now. it's always been about the sound systems for me, and the two are kept separate for logistical reasons;
you can't drive a float through a pumping sound system, that'd just be dumb

I agree - but what I mean is that I think there are two different audiences for Carnival, one that primarily enjoys the floats and the other that primarily likes the systems.

MAYBE if it was split into two days there would be less people trying to walk across the area looking to get to systems, and leaving those who are into the floats to get into without having people barging through. Half the time its such a road block that dancers behind floats stand there waiting to move on.

Likewise MAYBE if it was just sound systems it wouldnt be such a pain to get from one side of carnival to the other (near impossible at the moment), as the main thoroughfares wouldnt have articulated lorries in the middle of them. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Hey it wasnt a dig at you. I am just a bit pissed off at what redbull are doing, and thinking it might encourage other people to do the same. It would would effectively destroy NHC for a lot of people.

Anyway the met have just posted this press release on their website which is surprisingly positive (and long):

"I want to say to those who want to come to corrupt this magnificent event you are not welcome."

I agree with that - Carnival is pretty fragile and it needs protecting

 

[Ted Striker]

Hey it wasnt a dig at you. I am just a bit pissed off at what redbull are doing, and thinking it might encourage other people to do the same. It would would effectively destroy NHC for a lot of people.

It saves you from crossing the twats...it was like shoreditch in there last year. It's 50 yards from my front door, and I had no idea what was going on before I got in aside from Rodigan playing, ended up blagging the list (v easy!) and was treated to free booze and food, will probably do the same this year tbh. Hard not to see it's appeal, though it was never part of my 'Carnival experience', just a very minor sideshow I went to to see what all the fuss was about. They 'sold out' (it's all entirely free, though obs they limit the guestlist) in 37 seconds this year.

Interesting bit on BBC from Boothman here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14572389 on the fact they've got fuck all money, and don't position themselves to make any money. Whilst I laud their efforts to keep it 'real', I can't help but feel like they've missed out on some small comprimises that could have made everything more secure financially and saved the inevitable stresses they no doubt have every year.

 

[ska invita]

If your missing Norman, he's playing on Saturday, but I think its a house set

 

[hipipol]

Want Stur Gav - no substitute, wan Briggy, Charlie, Josey and the Man himself, U-Roy

No chance I reckon.......

 

[BlackArab]

Hey it wasnt a dig at you. I am just a bit pissed off at what redbull are doing, and thinking it might encourage other people to do the same. It would would effectively destroy NHC for a lot of people.

That's cool. It's a difficult one festivals, the explosion in their popularity has meant a dilution of the original vibe long-time attendees are used to, Glasto springs to mind. It's a massive headache financially as well especially since the increase in red tape demanded by the authorities. We used to have a brilliant one in Bristol called the Ashton Court Festival that imploded a few years ago due to this. tbh I'd enjoy St Pauls Festival more if attendances dropped 50% but like NHC it's become a victim of its own success and I'm not sure what can be done.

I was at NHC with my mum 83/84ish and lost her, ended up watching Aswad for a while (the Live & Direct set) and then found her about ten minutes after they finished, imagine that happening now, we'd never find each other! When I last went in 98 the crowds were too much and it's grown since then. I'd hate to imagine what would happen these days if a food stall caught fire and started a panic.

 

[ska invita]

Kind of related to that story BA, and going back to this idea about splitting floats and systems, what about having floats plus maybe a couple of live stages on Saturday, making this a real family day (Sunday isnt really a family day anymore), and then having Sunday/Monday for rigs, free of articulated lorries rolling around?

Not that any of these rambling posts make any difference to anyone, but since the Glastonbury thread ends up at scores of pages long I feel like its time not totally wasted


BTW in terms of possible sponsors in my experience alcohol companies have huge amounts of money to spend on promotions - i bet you could approach anyone of them and get money, its more a question of if you want to go down that path.

 

[paolo]

There's a hugely tricky balance these days.

Keeping the 'agencies' happy (council, police, fire), staying financially viable, minimising sell-out and most important of all keeping your punters happy.

If you're plain intransigent, you're on borrowed time. If you massively sell out, it can bite you back so bad you'll never recover.

I think long-standing institutions like NH and Glastonbury have managed to play a good balance. It's why they're still around. The last decade is littered with defunct purists (and, judging by Reading sales this year, equally the toll is hitting the profiteers too and rightly so).

Glastonbury have now decided to boot out the (low level, no logo) sponsorship they'd been garnering for the last five years. Loss of a million perhaps, but easily recouped by adding a tenner to the ticket price.

NH doesn't have that luxury. Or even, control. I hope they and their systems can keep it near-pure. I haven't been for a decade or so, but it's still etched in my mind as being one of the best events I've ever been to.

 

[ska invita]

this'll be huge. BTW the DigiSoundboy show on Rinse on Wednesdays 11pm-1am (once a month) is one of the best things on the radio IMOp - well worth tuning in for

 

[Treacle Toes]

this'll be huge

And completely ram-jam!

 

[ska invita]

And completely ram-jam!

hopefully no one else will know its on!
looks too good to miss

 

[Treacle Toes]

hopefully no one else will know its on!
looks too good to miss

Chances of that = zero!

 

[paolo]

Nuts. Even I know half the names on that bill.

 

[London_Calling]

There's a hugely tricky balance these days.

Keeping the 'agencies' happy (council, police, fire), staying financially viable, minimising sell-out and most important of all keeping your punters happy.

If you're plain intransigent, you're on borrowed time. If you massively sell out, it can bite you back so bad you'll never recover.

I think long-standing institutions like NH and Glastonbury have managed to play a good balance. It's why they're still around. The last decade is littered with defunct purists (and, judging by Reading sales this year, equally the toll is hitting the profiteers too and rightly so).

Glastonbury have now decided to boot out the (low level, no logo) sponsorship they'd been garnering for the last five years. Loss of a million perhaps, but easily recouped by adding a tenner to the ticket price.

NH doesn't have that luxury. Or even, control. I hope they and their systems can keep it near-pure. I haven't been for a decade or so, but it's still etched in my mind as being one of the best events I've ever been to.

Glastonbury's biggest problem, for me, is the ever-growing, pernicious influence of the BBC. Beyonce was like 'Sunday Night at the London Paladium' or something, proper entertainment for BBC Middle England. How Brucie didn't introduce her LIVE ON THE BBC I'll never know.

And as for the post-gig sofa chats....those def need Sue Barker and/or the BBC Breakfast News team. The BBC is slowly changing the whole character of the event.

Obv. a diff set of issues at NHC.