New 'left-wing' think tank....

[ViolentPanda]

Eagleton has a good line in defence of identifying shared national/cultural behavioural traits, so not apologising there...(Latin Americans just don't have the same disciplined attitude to timekeeping). You could say that she was being MORE democratic - spending time talking to young people who had volunteered to write and help out a bit - when a really important delegation of IWCA types was waiting to bestow their precious analysis on us.

Fuck me sideways with my desert boots.
You're obviously so insulated in your bubble you don't even notice the crap you're spouting.
"Latin Americans" keep time commensurate with the climate they live in. "Mañana" isn't a brush-off, it's a "it's too hot to work or think right now, let's do this tomorrow morning, when it's cooler". It's about as "behavioural" as having a roof over your head.
As for keeping people (anyone) waiting for an agreed meeting, that's pure bad manners, regardless of Ms. Wainwright's foibles. To make appointments and then expect others to wait on your arrival is rude and, much worse, it presents the rude person in a very bad light - as arrogant, condescending and self-regarding.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Jesus fucking christ

"I've referenced Terry Eagleton, so everything is okay".

 

[articul8]

=
"Latin Americans" keep time commensurate with the climate they live in. "Mañana" isn't a brush-off, it's a "it's too hot to work or think right now, let's do this tomorrow morning, when it's cooler". It's about as "behavioural" as having a roof over your head.

But precisely for this reason it's an attitude that - for good materialist reasons - has arisen in certain cultures (eg.Latin American ones) more so than in Northern Europe, say.

As for keeping people (anyone) waiting for an agreed meeting, that's pure bad manners, regardless of Ms. Wainwright's foibles. To make appointments and then expect others to wait on your arrival is rude and, much worse, it presents the rude person in a very bad light - as arrogant, condescending and self-regarding.

As it goes I tend to agree - but often no malice is intended, it's just the result of trying to pack to much into too short a time.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As a materialist, would it surprise you that people who have shared a similar climate, language(s), religious culture over centuries, etc etc would exhibit certain behavioural traits in common?

"Share"?
And it's not a "trait", it's an environmentally-imposed characteristic that doesn't generally include tardiness and discourtesy, but merely a wish not to work when the climate dictates otherwise.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But precisely for this reason it's an attitude that - for good materialist reasons - has arisen in certain cultures (eg.Latin American ones) more so than in Northern Europe, say.

It's not an attitude, it's a necessary practice.

As it goes I tend to agree - but often no malice is intended, it's just the result of trying to pack to much into too short a time.

Unintended and/or unthinking discourtesy is still discourtesy, nonetheless.

 

[articul8]

behaviours aren't environmentally imposed - beyond breathing, sleeping etc. Not all cultures in hot climates have a concept of "Manana" in quite the same way

 

[ViolentPanda]

people can be influenced by experience of other cultures, no?

People tend to pick up cultural values instrumentally, which would make the retention of a value meant to preserve your brain from frying in a climate where your brain is highly unlikely to fry, somewhat counterintuitive.

 

[chilango]

Fucking hell.

 

[articul8]

not at all - don't agree with your mechanical behavourism

 

[articul8]

Jesus, hell,...there's a growing theological bent on these boards

 

[ViolentPanda]

behaviours aren't environmentally imposed - beyond breathing, sleeping etc. Not all cultures in hot climates have a concept of "Manana" in quite the same way

I'm not arguing that all behaviours are environmentally-imposed, but that some are, and the whole idea behind "siesta" (which in turn drives "mañana") is to behave in such a way as to avoid the consequences of operating in a non-beneficial environment. It's not some ingrained laziness, although I'm sure that for a minority that might be part of it, it's a sensible reaction to environmental factors.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wow. 150 years after the idea of the general intellect and you come out with this fabian nonsense.

Careful that you don't call him a Fabian directly. He'll cry.

 

[articul8]

I'm not arguing that all behaviours are environmentally-imposed, but that some are, and the whole idea behind "siesta" (which in turn drives "mañana") is to behave in such a way as to avoid the consequences of operating in a non-beneficial environment. It's not some ingrained laziness, although I'm sure that for a minority that might be part of it, it's a sensible reaction to environmental factors.

who said it was "ingrained laziness" - I didn't. I agree it's a sensible cultural response to a hot climate

 

[ViolentPanda]

not at all - don't agree with your mechanical behavourism

Behaviours very often are "mechanical", at least for anyone who isn't a philosopher.

 

[ViolentPanda]

who said it was "ingrained laziness" - I didn't. I agree it's a sensible cultural response to a hot climate

"Latin Americans just don't have the same disciplined attitude to timekeeping". (Bubbleman, 2012).

 

[co-op]

Unintended and/or unthinking discourtesy is still discourtesy, nonetheless.

The general rule is that the person who arrives latest is the one who thinks they are the most important. If you ever do a "media" meeting, check it out, in my experience it was an infallible guide to the status of the participants.

 

[articul8]

"Latin Americans just don't have the same disciplined attitude to timekeeping". (Bubbleman, 2012).

this is true, but it's not a moral failing

 

[Idris2002]

Behaviours very often are "mechanical", at least for anyone who isn't a philosopher.

That's what she said.

 

[love detective]

this is true, but it's not a moral failing

look, she agreed to our meeting, kept us waiting for more than half an hour, made us sit on stupid little stools in front of her, then made no effort to listen to a word that was being said for the first twenty minutes and instead remained glued to her laptop

that you try and explain away this situation (albeit indirectly) with reference to 'good materialist reasons' is absurd!

she displayed exactly the type of privileged class attitude, behaviour and arrogance that drives the working class away from the left - ironically during a meeting about the crisis of working class representation

 

[Captain Hurrah]

How did you lot manage to carry on while she was munching on crisps and playing with her laptop? Feel like/actually did say something, even politely, about her obnoxious behaviour, or close to walking out?

 

[love detective]

i guess we just had more discipline and better manners/social skills than her combined with a bit of stunned disbelief about the blatancy of the whole thing

we were there for a specific purpose though, and even though we were somewhat skeptical about what would come out of it given the 'types' involved, the point was to do the thing and take stock afterwards (although admittedly the stock didn't take long to take after it)

to be fair after the first twenty minutes or so once she had read all her mails and finished her crisps and actually started to listen she did engage quite enthusiastically, but first impressions are hard to look beyond

one thing she did latch onto quite enthusiastically was the comment that the solution (to the crisis in working class representation) isn't going to be found 'in house'

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Intellectuals.

 

[treelover]

I remember a couple of years ago the IWCA were looking to put on some kind of 'autopsy' & 'way forward' type conference which was going to be scheduled for the 25th anniversary of the end of the miners strike

As part of that there was a meeting arranged with Hilary and another couple of dignitaries from the Red Pepper editorial board, to see if there was some common ground that could be found and look to have them getting involved, possibly as one of the sponsors of the thing.

While the discussion itself was not that bad (although thoroughly predictable) - the non-verbal aspects of it said so much more about the thing. Firstly, despite agreeing the time to meet (in some bar at an education centre) and us arriving promptly and on time, we were made to wait like spare pricks for a good half an hour or so until Hilary & Co had finished talking to their minions on the magazine. Then when we were finally allowed to grace her presence, the only seating made available to us were 4 little stools in a row in front of the 'panel' who were sat on normal sized seats, which meant throughout the whole meeting we were physically at a lower level to the RP dignitaries. And then for the first twenty minutes or so of the meeting, Hilary sat typing on her laptop, checking her emails and eating crisps, while only occasionally giving some kind of signal that she was actually listening to what was being said to her

Actions certainly spoke louder than words on that evening

have to say you have it bang on there, Hilary is always 'busy'

 

[treelover]

Yes, she's latin american. Or English.

You genuinely have no idea how dispiriting it is to hear oh it's just her way do you? You really have no idea what arrogance it entails or the privilige it's constructed upon and how you're roped in to defend it. You've posted some real drivel on here before but fucking hell...

plenty of them are like that, surprisingly though I found Guy Taylor to be quite empathetic and considerate..

 

[articul8]

she displayed exactly the type of privileged class attitude, behaviour and arrogance that drives the working class away from the left - ironically during a meeting about the crisis of working class representation

Are you sure she wasn't taking a note of the discussion on her laptop, or looking at the IWCA website - she has a habit of "multitasking" but it's hard to see whether that's an excuse for not concentrating? Anyway, clearly a bad impression was created. I daren't ask what you thought about my demeanour, but you didn't decline an interview on BTF stuff so can't have been too catastrophic.

 

[Frances Lengel]

It's the stools that do it (snigger). I'm not getting into the timekeeping gig, but there's no excuse for making people sit on kiddie chairs - That is just a power trip.

 

[cesare]

I hope she kept you lot supplied with drinks and crisps during this 50 minutes x however many of you there were's worth of waiting on her.

 

[articul8]

It's the stools that do it (snigger). I'm not getting into the timekeeping gig, but there's no excuse for making people sit on kiddie chairs - That is just a power trip.

it gets worse - they weren't kiddie chairs, it was a bar - Ok there were backrests with some seats and stools opposite. But to say this was a conspiracy is a bit chippy to be honest.

 

[malatesta32]

Fuck me sideways with my desert boots.

lovely!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Hilary's house is utterly filthy - I don't think that's a Mexican trait either.