New 'left-wing' think tank....

[ViolentPanda]

Changing the bubble from within via hot air.

Well, I suppose inflating the bubble with hot air is "changing" it, albeit not in the way most people would have hoped.

 

[articul8]

I can deny it absolutely - the thought would never even have occurred to me. I bet it didn't occur to Sidney very often either, tbf.

 

[love detective]

do you think it would have put him off cumming?

 

[butchersapron]

I can deny it absolutely - the thought would never even have occurred to me. I bet it didn't occur to Sidney very often either, tbf.

 

[articul8]

do you think it would have put him off cumming?

almost certainly.

 

[love detective]

V ​

​

 

[articul8]

to be fair, Bea's face is much less repellant than her politics - whereas Deb's are equally so

 

[butchersapron]

The second time as whitehall farce.

 

[love detective]

second time as face...

here's the westminster launch of the think tank that, according to owen jones, "is genuinely going to be different because it is rooted in the experiences of working people"

is that articul8 on the left hand side near the front?

 

[butchersapron]

I believe it is, greasing towards the top table. Whilst looking at his fucking phone.

 

[Random]

here's the westminster launch of the think tank that, according to owen jones, "is genuinely going to be different because it is rooted in the experiences of working people"

is that articul8 on the left hand side near the front?

Looks hideously brown. Surprised anyone can keep their eyes open; plenty of nodding downwards heads.

 

[love detective]

I believe it is, greasing towards the top table. Whilst looking at his fucking phone.

He's just going through his 'to-do' list from Hilary

 

[DaveCinzano]

Surprised anyone can keep their eyes open; plenty of nodding downwards heads.

Reclaiming the central heating

 

[Captain Hurrah]

second time as face...

If any working class people had been there they'd have been seated at a lower level than their liberators and guardians.

 

[love detective]

there's a row of tiny stools just out of the picture to the left, just in case

 

[butchersapron]

Is that tom watson two rows behind the red hot communist with his hand sort of half-raised?

 

[articul8]

I look like I'm dropping off! Quite appropriate really

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

That's fucking funny - a real working class think tank in action.

 

[Random]

Great use of Instagram to make the think tank look dated and obsolete before it's even really started.

 

[chilango]

second time as face...

The first, last and only time I went to a meeting there, Mad Daf enlivened proceedings by sitting as close as possible to the labour movement dignitaries on the top table skinning up and arranging a large collection of honks and trolls on the table.

Looks like that meeting could've done with something similar...

 

[lazythursday]

The posts earlier on this thread about Hilary Wainwright made me feel quite nostalgic - I worked for Red Pepper aeons ago in the mid 90s. It was always fun trying to teach her about aspects of life outside of her narrow milieu prior to Question Time appearances. And I certainly don't miss the breathless, excited phone calls at all hours of the night that always ended with me having agreed to do a load of work sweeping up after her. She's personally very likeable, but it seemed to me a bit of a serial abuser of the coterie of young men who she tended to draw into her sphere of influence. I never felt middle class enough to thrive within the Red Pepper set, and in the end a life on benefits being thrown the occasional bone by Hilary lost its glamour. I met her again a number of years later and was quite thrilled to see her, but was disappointed that she just used the occasion to try to get me to do some unpaid work for her again.

 

[articul8]

I know what you mean about her social "set". I work for nowt on the mag too. Her heart's in the right place though

 

[butchersapron]

Oh that's alright then.

Does she take a wage from Red Pepper?

 

[chilango]

I know what you mean about her social "set". I work for nowt on the mag too. Her heart's in the right place though

You work on Red Pepper voluntarily?

Ffs

 

[articul8]

Oh that's alright then.

Does she take a wage from Red Pepper?

No

 

[lazythursday]

Hilary's a decent person, she tries her best, but comes across a bit Mrs Jellyby in her patrician concern for the poor. Like Toynbee, who is also part of a liberal dynasty. Despite that I did admire her greatly, especially for her enormous energy and drive, and still retain some affection although I perhaps in the end I felt to her I was simply a resource to be deployed, in the manner of her class.

I managed to get the odd payment from RP back then, and Hilary kept the starving minions alive with vague rumours of new donations that would mean eventual wages. But personally it was worth it in terms of gaining editorial experience - not sure how worth it it was politically in retrospect. It wasn't Hilary that put me off RP really - despite her flaws she was oddly magnetic - it was hangers-on like Osler and Nick Cohen.

 

[articul8]

it was hangers-on like Osler and Nick Cohen.

Fiona? Or Dave? And Cohen Judging by our twitter slanging match the other day I don't think he's a hanger on any more - we don't have enough free booze for him anyway.

 

[lazythursday]

Well yes, I thought Cohen would have moved on by now... He was very much a fixture at events etc back then.

I'm being unfair. The Oslers were always pleasant. Just part of a certain sort of monied liberal-left establishment that I found irritating. As a youngster struggling to keep a roof over my head I was living in an utterly different world.

 

[articul8]

Fiona left in the end - it all got quite fractious in the office. I don't think I'm "monied liberal-left establishment" btw! Nor are the other people involved now really. Other than one or two (OK more than one or two) of Hilary's pals.

 

[brogdale]

Who mentioned the outcome? I mentioned the process. You are unable to say a damn thing about it despite offering it as an example of 'working with'. (and i know exactly what the process actually was having a number of the stewards as mates). If you imagine that Hilary deigning to meet shop stewards is on the same level or is an example of the workers self-organisation at Porto Marghera then you're even more deluded than i first thought. If this example is so fruitful you must surely be able to say why - and why HW's 'working with' was crucial. That doesn't mean tell me why the idea of an alternative plan is/was good, but how the 'intellectuals' involvement helped. Is this how you think 'intellectuals' should respond to their role and activity being questioned? I thought you were a red hot militant?

Was looking for mentions of the Lucas plan in old threads, saw what you'd posted and wondered if you ever seen this?



Given the old discussion about Wainwright's supposed impact on the plan, I was also interested in this comment below this Libcom piece...

Having worked at Lucas from 1959 to 1990, I find the article very interesting, but heavily glossed. What we have is the position in outline as far as the Lucas Combine is concerned ,but it scarcely reflects the situation on the shop floor. In the area where I worked there were about eight unions who were dominated by the AUE, as it was around then. Again in numbers, the shop stewards were heavily weighted by the AEU, who worked hard to get new employees in to their union. But, the ,'Engineers," were dominated by the skilled men, who in many ways were the tyrants of the shop floor and ignored the demands or requests of the women for equality or the lower paid in general. When we consider that the voting was by union and we had Tinsmiths and Electricians, plumbers, the unslilled were out voted, indeed they barely surfaced. The annual wage claim for years was across the board , which meant that the unskilled were losing ground yearly, yet the pretence was that it was an equal claim. It was only when a TGWU, shop steward pointed out that 6% of £100.00 was scarecly the same as 6% of £200 or 300 ? The comrade was met with an attempt by the AUE, branch chairman, a left winger on the district committee, to stop him talking to the workforce!
Later, the Drivers, (T&GWU,) came with a plea for parity with the skilled sections. This was opposed by the Senior Shop Stewards Ctte, who actually banned the T&GWU delegate from the S.SS.C., when a stich up was agreed to by the Lucas management. Not that he had broken any rules, but that he had offended the skilled men by gaining parity! This left the T&G. without any representation on the S,S.Ctt. It was only when the Sec, of the Lucas T&G announced that he, a shop steward, would take the seat, (according to the rules,) at the next meeting that a rep, was allowed back, not the Sec, who though he was a steward of some years experience, was also an Anarchist but a non political steward.
In the sixties or seventies agreement was reached between the SSC and management for a bonus! It was to be paid through the wage, but not to the canteen women, or the safety / firemen. Why? They didn't produce! On the factory floor very few people produce, most make production flow smoothly,i.e. Semi-skilled inspectors, labourers, drivers and so on, but without them production becomes hard and slows down. Why were the firemen and the ,canteen women,'discriminated against? When the T&G, delegates asked why, much later, we were told, they don't produce anything and it's a production bonus! and certainly for ten or so years the subject was never discussed at shop stewards general meetings, until in the eighties a new figure arrived on the scene,a chef, or,' a new canteen worker.' She made a difference, tall ginger haired, slim like a flower, one of the inspection Shop stewards described her. She was no fool and immediately honed in on the very obvious anomaly, no bonus! She brought it up at the T&G shop stewards meeting and received support. The agreement was to put it to the SS Committe for discussion. There was no change, before it could be put to the vote we had to get it on the agenda and that event was always put off, usually it wasn't the right time, or it would cause a dispute amongst the shop floor. Eventually, after intense lobbying it obtained a place , there was more lobbying for support and the lady chef, totted up and we had on paper half the votes needed for success. It failed miserably much to the shock of the Chef! The fact was the bonus was a percentage on profits and paid out to the shop floor weekly. As one skilled inspector said, if we pay them, there's less for us!
Much is said even now about the change from armaments to necessary usage, as one leaflet had it! Yet the scheme was never positively explained , there were no discussion or real education on the matter! There might have been a few enthusiasts up and down the combine but interest generally was never encouraged by union head office or local combine officials, these were usually AUE and more interested in gaining branch members to boost their own remuneration!