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Motherhood and the denial of the mother

JudithB

JudithB

Well-Known Member
I am a matriarch hear me roar. And I wont be silenced.

We are the people who create from within and I am a little fed up hearing that we should put up and shut up when it comes to basic safeguarding. But hey, for this thread let's try and avoid the ongoing bollocks...this is all about ovaries and what they do and how we are amazing whether we do it, can do it, can't do it, decide not to do it.

We all came out of someone who did

Part of me now really wants to go back and call this thread Matriarchal Power. But that doesn't cover it does it. We all had mothers. No one can ever deny biologically having a mother.

Yet it all goes tits up doesn't it. Some of us survive loving our mums into our twenties and thirties.

So what is it? Where does the denial of the mother start? Is it sooner or different for men? Does motherhood or parenthood in itself change things?

And this isn't a men's issue, this is about why and how women love and adore their mothers, and how and why and particularly WHEN that stops. Is it a generational thing, ie, can we stop it? Is it cultural? God forbid, but is there any silencing involved in terms of the patriarchy?

ETA I've asked men a question and that was due to needing to be inclusive. Yes of course men tell us your stories but I think we can all agree that there is a disconnect between mothers and daughters
 
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JudithB said:
So what is it? Where does the denial of the mother start?
Click to expand...
Is this a term/phrase you’re using in a technical way? I’m not sure what it means. I’ve just done a web search, but this thread is one of the top results, and the other results didn’t seem relevant (in that they contained the words but not the sense you seemed to be using them in). That suggests that if it’s an existing concept it’s probably a fairly esoteric one, so you may need to expand a bit on that concept, or you’ll end up getting a lot of replies like this one, asking for further clarification.

But I applaud your roar. Roaring is good.
 
Using my Spidey senses, I detect another trans-bashing rant on the way...

I don't have a dog in that fight, and I can see good arguments and good faith on both sides, but it would restore my faith in JudithB if she could post something that wasn't very obvious Trans baiting.
 
JudithB said:
I am a matriarch hear me roar. And I wont be silenced.

We are the people who create from within and I am a little fed up hearing that we should put up and shut up when it comes to basic safeguarding. But hey, for this thread let's try and avoid the ongoing bollocks...this is all about ovaries and what they do and how we are amazing whether we do it, can do it, can't do it, decide not to do it.

We all came out of someone who did

Part of me now really wants to go back and call this thread Matriarchal Power. But that doesn't cover it does it. We all had mothers. No one can ever deny biologically having a mother.

Yet it all goes tits up doesn't it. Some of us survive loving our mums into our twenties and thirties.

So what is it? Where does the denial of the mother start? Is it sooner or different for men? Does motherhood or parenthood in itself change things?

And this isn't a men's issue, this is about why and how women love and adore their mothers, and how and why and particularly WHEN that stops. Is it a generational thing, ie, can we stop it? Is it cultural? God forbid, but is there any silencing involved in terms of the patriarchy?

ETA I've asked men a question and that was due to needing to be inclusive. Yes of course men tell us your stories but I think we can all agree that there is a disconnect between mothers and daughters
Click to expand...

If your kids don't call you, maybe that's a personal thing not part of a massive social trend.
 
Well ceartainly there's such a thing as denial of The Mother (capital T).

Kids were after all fathers property since forever, even though mothers create, birth and care for humanity. Denying your creation as not yours is pretty much denying The Mother.

Denial of The Mother is the root of patriarchy & the root of capitalism.

It's one where the authority of the mother is denied too (wait till YOUR FATHER gets home) society sees a single mother (without a FATHER) as devient and thus denies the mother as capable.

What societal ways will humanity find technological ways to deny The Mother?

Artificial wombs? Genetic engineering?

We don't see huge leaps in medical science towards caring for new mothers, to help them breastfeed, to make labour quicker and less painful. And the aftercare? Aside from a vagina mesh there's no such thing. And yet - bring on the artificial wombs and incubators.

Unpaid work, unpaid care, denial of authority, denial of the uniqueness of the female body bringing life to the world.

That's patriarchy innit?

Edit:
And yes, the system filters down to the individual and individual actions and conceptions.

The question is how the structure affects you as an individual.
 
Anyway to answer my own questions that disconnect with my mother happened around the age of 13/14 just as I hit puberty (I was a very late starter). I don't think that it's a coincidence.

My dad in particular always denied her authority in the usual non-violent ways. Belittling, accusations of nagging, name calling, mocking her body (he always MADE a point of making fun 9f her small boobs - he liked em BIG). Eventually that filtered down to me and I started to believe his bullshit.

My mother became the evil dictator of the household, ruling with an iron fist. In reality it was my dad gaslighting us all to believe that.

As a teenager that's how I saw it.

He had the money, he had the job, and he was the one who bullied us all.

That's how it was.

Learning about feminism and patriarchy revield the truth. It unfuzzed and untangled the smoke and mirrors and showed that my dad was doing what patriarchy does to mothers and explained how it happens.

It fucked up my mental heath and love for my own body and femaleness in ways that I won't go into, but you can imagine.

I gained a lot of respect for my mother, and myself back through the 5 years since I started reading more in depth on the subject.

I expect the women born to single mothers will be the same and different. Belittling, name calling, mocking of the body. Its not unique to husbands.
 
I find this an interesting thing. My family, like many, was matriarchally dominant. My dad was never used as a threat, my mum earned most, and made all the financial decisions. My dad was at home as much if not more than my mum when I was little (firefighter shift patterns).

I only have aunts on my mum’s side (neither of whom had male partners until I was well into adulthood) And I only have sisters. Until I was 20 the only men in my family were my granddad, my dad, and the myriad relatives on my dad’s side who I only saw once a year. Then my sisters started having babies, three quarters of whom are Male, and although they’re adults now, I’m in my forties and do not feel oppressed.
 
I love my mother and I’m in my 40s. I fought with her as a teen, but I never stopped loving her.

I think FabricLiveBaby! makes some good points. Female reproductive healthcare is shockingly bad, and the image of the mother and conventional societal view of how a mother should/can behave is toxic (and the judgements that come from that- even to the tedious yummy mummy/mumtrepreneur stuff all over the media recently)
 
Maris Piper said:
Ok but it's pretty easy to get someone's ovaries for IVF if you have the right equipment
Click to expand...
Do you mean eggs? The ovaries stay put!

And no. The ovaries, specifically, have a much more critical role to play than in non-assisted pregnancy. They have to be powered into overdrive by a long period of huge homonal overdose, stimulating them to produce as many eggs as possible, which then have to be harvested in an intrusive physical procedure.
 
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spanglechick said:
Do you mean eggs? The ovaries stay put!

And no. The ovaries, specifically, have a much more critical role to play than in non-assisted pregnancy. They have to be powered into overdrive by a long period of huge homonal overdose, stimulating them to produce as many eggs as possible, which then have to be harvested in an intrusive physical procedure.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that they can make a baby easily
If science really can't do it then you can just do a Madonna and nick one from a village in Africa
 
I'm not sure what this thread is about based on the OP?

But human matriarchal societies existed in the past and still do in certain places...

6 Modern Societies Where Women Rule

The general tenets being child bearing and child rearing are significant and respected. Family names pass down the female line. Possessions and property pass via the female line. Women can have numerous sex partners. Often they're not sure who the exact father of their child might be. It doesnt matter though. No marriage. Men do not live with the women who have their children. Men live within their own matriarchical family group. Grandmothers or elder women rule. Their offspring...grown... remain and live together as a community. Only leaving to have sex and work.

This is a great article too.
The kingdom of women: the society where a man is never the boss
The kingdom of women: the society where a man is never the boss

However...There does exist disdain for women who don't have children and they can be shunned...unlike in prehistory where women who did not bear children could become priestesses...

Matriarchal societies existed in pre history. Right up until the egyptian kings began to dominate and some would say that matriarchal society died when the connection was made between sex and pregnancy. Suddenly women were not magical beings producing young humans out of "thin air".

Neither matriarchy nor patriarchy are great though for everyone are they? They function by denying power to a significant group within their society.
Egalitarianism in all things will be the best future...I think. Communities working and living together sharing the workload and child rearing equally. It's not beyond humanity surely?

As for "loving my mother".
As a kid I looked up to both my parents. Loved them both equally. My mum was ill quite a lot...operations etc. I was left helping out a lot at home. I actually enjoyed it...at the time. As I grew up I certainly had far more rows with my mum than my dad.
Nowadays...my parents are 80. My mum is very frail. She still can give out stink though and does. But when I look at her it actually pains me to see how frail she is .... and then she'll turn and say "what are you looking at? Go find something useful to do"...and I am relegated back to being the child again in an instant. I usually laugh it off cos lets face it...she has a point. There was a time when my mum was my best friend. But as I grew and she grew old that changed. As I became the one looking after her she at times was unhappy and her efforts at independence depressed her. She has begun to be the matriarch...the old woman giving orders from her sick bed because it is the only voice she has left and it is the only thing keeping her alive.. I love her and always will. For the good and the not so good times we spent together.

The OP isnt so clear but maybe that's ok. It gives people an opportunity to look at human relationship from a perspective of mothers or motherhood or matriarchy.

 
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