Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[ViolentPanda]

Stavros has a point though - traditionally, these bastards have a code of not shitting on their own, presumably because they've each got so many skeletons we'd never hear the end of it.
That code's dead now, thanks to this.

That's a very good thing, if it's true. Perhaps the print and broadcast media might be a little more concerned about their own probity if they had the worry of a competitor publishing a scoop about their dodgy practices.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've not seen anyone else cover the Fail story - were they perhaps rehashing old information?

And from the US: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201111120004?frontpage

I've not watched the vid but "Roy Greenslade Tells Media Matters Radio: "Every Single Member Of The Parliamentary Committee Investigating [Phone Hacking] Were Followed By Private Eyes And/Or Members Of [News of the World] Staff"

Surely that has to be some form o Contempt of Parliament. I wonder whether anyone will recall who ordered that. Some of the comments are interesting. (I like the way they indent asides from people, too. )

(And bloody hell Roy Greenslade must be getting on, it has to be 50 years since he starred in the Goons.)

Contempt of Parliament would only pertain within the environs of prliament, so if PIs were entering parliamentary buildings to follow committee members (or search their offices) that would apply. Outside of parliament you'd have to actually assemble a case to show beyond reasonable doubt that the committee members were being followed for a specific committee-related reason, which is where the going gets hard, and plausible deniability takes over.

 

[laptop]

Perhaps the print and broadcast media might be a little more concerned about their own probity if they had the worry of a competitor publishing a scoop about their dodgy practices.

Which is precisely what Nick Davies did in the Guardian

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which is precisely what Nick Davies did in the Guardian

The problem there being that Davies' work was the exception to practice, rather than the rule. If we could expect such behaviour from all journos across the media, I'd have a little more faith in the supposed self-regulation that gets harked on about.

 

[London_Calling]

what is a "dodgy practice" - either it's legal or it's illegal, no?

All this drama queen nonsense from Watson and others about 'surveillance' is a tad precious- as best I know, unless there was intent to use information gained (say, in order to coerce or intimidate), an individual has civil remedies, like .. for example, harrassment. Following people around is not in itself an offence.

 

[butchersapron]

Following people is dodgy. I'm sure you've been told this before.

 

[London_Calling]

Ah yes, that well known legal concept.

If I've been told before, I'm sure it's somewhere in your little surveillance notebook.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what is a "dodgy practice" - either it's legal or it's illegal, no?

All this drama queen nonsense from Watson and others about 'surveillance' is a tad precious- as best I know, unless there was intent to use information gained (say, in order to coerce or intimidate), an individual has civil remedies, like .. for example, harrassment. Following people around is not in itself an offence.

If we're saying "either it's legal or illegal" then we're defining the law and the situation as issues that can be looked at purely in black-and-white terms. That isn't always the case.

 

[butchersapron]

Ah yes, that well known legal concept.

If I've been told before, I'm sure it's somewhere in your little surveillance notebook.

Who mentioned legality? All good fun until you're caught eh?

Amazing this moral space you live in.It's ok it if it's legal. Nothing dodgy could be legal. No motivations, no actions, nothing can be dodgy if legal. Lucky that you're a dodgy cunt eh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ah yes, that well known legal concept.

If I've been told before, I'm sure it's somewhere in your little surveillance notebook.

Does the issue reside in the following, or to what the following pertains to? I'd say it's the latter, and that you're either missing the point or avoiding it. I could follow you, and the act of following wouldn't be dodgy, but if I were accumulating information on your movements, habits, the odd way you walk etc for purposes of finding something I could use to smear you or use as leverage on you, then there you have your "dodgy practice".

 

[London_Calling]

The problem you have is 'dodgy' is meaninglessly subjective, whether in idle conversation or before a court e.g. your (above) explanation/justification is 'dodgy' - then we get into the panto of no it isn't, yes it is.

The law, however ... is the law.

tbf, I think we've prob all got better things to do than argue the toss about 'dodgy'.

 

[William of Walworth]

what is a "dodgy practice" - either it's legal or it's illegal, no?

All this drama queen nonsense from Watson and others about 'surveillance' is a tad precious- as best I know, unless there was intent to use information gained (say, in order to coerce or intimidate), an individual has civil remedies, like .. for example, harrassment. Following people around is not in itself an offence.

You're defending this alleged surveillance then are you? Good luck with that one ....

 

[stavros]

I know they covered it a bit, but the Mirror and particularly the Indie seemed disappointingly content to let the Graun lead and not really push it (I speak as an Indie reader). The only other mainstream publication delving properly seemed to be Private Eye, but that's to be expected.

 

[claphamboy]

what is a "dodgy practice" - either it's legal or it's illegal, no?

Oh, I wish I lived in a black & white world like yours, not.

See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron,
My God! Perhaps I am!

 

[London_Calling]

You're defending this alleged surveillance then are you? Good luck with that one ....

To state the very obv, I'm pointing out that 'dodgy' is a worthless, wishy-washy term in the context of any meaningful analysis or discussion.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Dacre may be a total and utter camel cunt, but he's not stupid. I suspect he's already worked out a damage-limitation strategy for the Mail, and I further suspect it's one that'll be tied to him taking the hit for any Mail wrongdoing by retiring (which he's been planning, but has repeatedly put on hold for the last 3-4 years). I may be wrong, but Dacre, as an individual, is fanatically-committed to the Mail titles, far more so than most of his contemporaries.

private eye has tended to agree with this narrative as well.

 

[elbows]

To state the very obv, I'm pointing out that 'dodgy' is a worthless, wishy-washy term in the context of any meaningful analysis or discussion.

No it isn't, because such analysis and discussions do not have to be along some clearly defined lines, especially when it comes to moral issues. There are a range of press activities that are fair game now that we have entered a phase where the moral failings of the press are wide open to be pick over in public. The can of worms is open, and the worms will not be judged purely along the lines of legal & technical definitions.

 

[ViolentPanda]

To state the very obv, I'm pointing out that 'dodgy' is a worthless, wishy-washy term in the context of any meaningful analysis or discussion.

It's more accurate to say that the term is worthless if it is taken out of context. Taken in context it's a sometimes-convenient shorthand.

 

[killer b]

the eye seems to be speculating that kelvin mackenzie is being drawn in.

please let it be so.

http://twitpic.com/7eo7iu

 

[magneze]

+1

 

[London_Calling]

I take it by "drawn in" you don't mean hacked and recently notified of such by the Met?

 

[stavros]

the eye seems to be speculating that kelvin mackenzie is being drawn in.

please let it be so.

http://twitpic.com/7eo7iu

They're trying to slowly expose Piers "Morgan" Moron too.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Surprised no one's mentioned Neville 'Onan the Barbarian' Thurlbeck's account in the Press Gazette - basically claims he wasn't the Neville of 'For Nev' email infamy; that he had evidence to support this which he showed to Crone and Myler; that Myler and Crone didn't pass this info up the food chain; that Brooks and Murdoch the Lesser didn't know what was going on; and that he had passed his 'dossier' onto Watson.

Terribly written piece, and doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of sense (I have a head cold, though).

 

[Gingerman]

the eye seems to be speculating that kelvin mackenzie is being drawn in.

please let it be so.

http://twitpic.com/7eo7iu

Fingers crossed,prayers said,left testicle being offered up etc.

 

[elbows]

Lawyer David Sherborne dropped some bombs today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/nov/16/leveson-inquiry-hugh-grant

Sherborne said that "Whilst Mr Grant was appearing on Question Time, discussing the closure of the NoW, Rupert Murdoch and press standards generally, she received a barrage of telephone calls from a withheld number from someone who managed to get it from somewhere, and when they finally answered she was threatened in the most menacing terms, which should reverberate around this inquiry: 'Tell Hugh Grant he must shut the fuck up'. Unsurprisingly she was too stressed to call the police."

Sherborne also told the inquiry that the parents of Madeleine McCann "begged for restraint" from blatant intrusion into their private lives by the News of the World.
He claimed that the now-defunct tabloid newspaper published Kate McCann's private letters to her missing daughter without consent and even before her husband Gerry had seen them.
Charlotte Church will also give evidence as a core participant to the inquiry.
Sherborne told the high court that Church had been hounded incessantly by photographers looking for a scoop – and as recently as a week ago was the subject of a "complete fabrication" published in one unnamed newspaper.
He claimed that Church's mother attempted suicide shortly after the News of the World published a story in 2005 alleging that her father was having an affair. "This is the real, brutally real impact this kind of journalism has," Sherborne said.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Former Motorman lead investigator/ex-Special Branch detective/hackgate whistleblower Alec Owens raided by police today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ed-the-dirty-tricks-of-the-press-6264591.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...News-World-journalists-computers-grinder.html

...Mr Owens contacted Lord Justice Leveson about his concerns over the way the matter was handled and is due to give evidence in person to the public inquiry on media standards on 30 November. Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner at the time of Operation Motorman, will appear before the inquiry the next day.

At 7.25am yesterday, two police officers from Wilmslow, Cheshire, armed with with a search warrant, knocked on Mr Owens' door. They demanded documents and electronic files and asked him to come to a police station to be questioned under caution.

Cheshire Police said it had acted "following information received". A spokeswoman added: "The warrant relates to an investigation into allegations concerning breaches of the Data Protection Act 1998."

Mr Owens agreed to hand over his copy of the Operation Motorman computer file but declined to provide the statement he has prepared for Lord Justice Leveson's inquiry. He was asked to attend an interview on Monday and bring the statement with him.

Mr Owens, who has notified Lord Justice Leveson's office of the development, said he believed the raid was connected to his inquiry evidence. "They have come on a fishing expedition to find out what I'm going to say," he said. "But I have told them that statement is for Lord Leveson's eyes only at this stage."

He has already provided a statement and a copy of the Motorman disk to Strathclyde Police, which is investigating media dirty tricks in Scotland. "This is vindictiveness," he said of yesterday's raid. "They want to know what hard evidence I have got and what I am going to say to the Leveson Inquiry."

Plus it appears that New Of The World computer hard drives were shredded last Autumn.

 

[laptop]

Former Motorman lead investigator/ex-Special Branch detective/hackgate whistleblower Alec Owens raided by police today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ed-the-dirty-tricks-of-the-press-6264591.html

That's scary... what else is there to come out from Motorman that (some) cops want to suppress, then?

Oddly, can't find the Guardian reporting this; not even a catch-up story.

 

[Badgers]

Sally Dowler said the hacking by a private detective had given the couple false hope over their missing daughter. Describing the moment she could access the previously-full voicemail she said: "I just jumped and said: 'She's picked up her voicemails... she's alive'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15812762

 

[two sheds]

Yes but in the NI lawyers' words ... let's not have a witch hunt, eh?

 

[laptop]

Yes but in the NI lawyers' words ... let's not have a witch hunt, eh?

How come NI is borrowing from the Trot songbook?

"You said something I disagree with. It's a witch-hunt!!!"​