Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[frogwoman]

Because the process by which those stories are brought to you hurts people. That's why you shouldn't.

under capitalism the process of buying EVERY product is hurting somebody.

that's entirely different to saying (as ymu came close to arguing) that the poor little journalists and phone-hackers at the NOTW didn't have any choices or whatever ...

 

[frogwoman]

how about newspapers paying half of any libel payout into a 'libel aid' fund, which can be used in a similar way to legal aid was by people who can't afford to sue themselves?

 

[agricola]

We've just had another fucking scandal because of the papers' INABILITY to report the facts (about a footballers divorce ffs) have people on here forgotten so readily about that??

Whilst it is wrong that superinjunctions were brought in over that, it is also deeply wrong that papers should be able to make money out of a situation of that kind. After all, if Giggs had been going around making money out of being a clean-cut and loyal family man, then you could at least make the argument that exposing his hypocrisy was justified and necessary (as it would be, IMHO). However when someone - even a celeb - has something bad happen to them, then the papers should really have to present evidence / compelling reasons as to why they should be justified in making money out of that.

As for Der Sturmer, of course there is a much different scale involved but there are parallels with modern media - after all, as both Peter Oborne and Nick Davies have said in their books, the worst examples of mendacity from the press in the UK over recent years did not come from stories they had made up, but rather came from stories the Government had made up, which the press then repeated*.

*(edit) - which of course leads on to all the scandals that they have failed to report down the years. As an example, I dont know if anyone has read the latest Eye, but the fact that what happened to (as an example, there are at least five or six equally bad stories in the NHS Whistleblower section alone) Dr Raj Mattu is not a national scandal that led to senior people at that Trust being sacked, is an utter disgrace.

 

[Dan U]

Guardian report today that Camden Council is looking to divest £100ms of pension funds from NI on the basis of ethics

Chase the money, that's what's going to hurt Murdoch and his empire globally

I'm going to write to my local councils pension fund on Monday, albeit I am not a member so they might tell me to get fucked

 

[_angel_]

Btw, I'm not a regular reader of the sun, I've bought the sun maybe once or twice over the last five years, but i've often read it at work or on buses D)

I read two copies yesterday ! Ha!
(Btw bit strange that the barbers saw fit to go out and buy two identical copies of the same paper for their customers but anyway).

 

[frogwoman]

Whilst it is wrong that superinjunctions were brought in over that, it is also deeply wrong that papers should be able to make money out of a situation of that kind. After all, if Giggs had been going around making money out of being a clean-cut and loyal family man, then you could at least make the argument that exposing his hypocrisy was justified and necessary (as it would be, IMHO). However when someone - even a celeb - has something bad happen to them, then the papers should really have to present evidence / compelling reasons as to why they should be justified in making money out of that.

As for Der Sturmer, of course there is a much different scale involved but there are parallels with modern media - after all, as both Peter Oborne and Nick Davies have said in their books, the worst examples of mendacity from the press in the UK over recent years did not come from stories they had made up, but rather came from stories the Government had made up, which the press then repeated.

But the press (and even the broadsheet press) has been making money out of stuff like this - royal/celebrity gossip etc, sometimes of a pretty sordid nature - since time immemorial. I'm not saying it's right mind you, but how would you stop it happening? And the superinjunctions just served to make everyone more curious - although interestingly the reaction from the legal establishment was to blame the media and call for the laws to be tightened?

as for the point about the government feeding the media stories - absolutely, and i completely agree with you on that.

again im not trying to defend the media here, or anything, but some aspects of this just make me feel slightly uncomfortable

 

[London_Calling]

I remember exactly the last copy of a Murdoch paper I bought; 1992/93: The Sun and the Camillagate transcript - I just couldn't believe Charles had said that stuff... hey, I was young.

Arguably, the beginning of a trail that led to this week.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Jaysus the wicked witch of wapping is on the board of directors of the Press association..
http://www.pressassociation.com/about-us/board-of-directors.html

 

[London_Calling]

It's ok, she was probably on holiday at the time.

 

[claphamboy]

I read two copies yesterday ! Ha!
(Btw bit strange that the barbers saw fit to go out and buy two identical copies of the same paper for their customers but anyway).

I popped into my barbers on the way back from work about half an hour ago, they normally have both The Sun & The Mirror in there, but The Sun has been replaced by the 'i' since Tuesday.

I then popped into the village Co-op to pick-up a copy of the 'i' myself, they had between about 1 & 12 copies of every national paper left, except The Sun - there must have been at least 50-60 copies left.

Has anyone else noticed piles of unsold copies of The Sun, this late in the day, in their local newsagent/shop?

 

[Ranbay]

someone told me there is an extra 2 million copies going out of the NOTW tomorrow.....

 

[strung out]

i suspect one of the reasons for the sun possibly not selling so well this week, is because they haven't been covering the big story that everyone wants to read about.

 

[killer b]

Has anyone else noticed piles of unsold copies of The Sun, this late in the day, in their local newsagent/shop?

all week, but i've never thought to check before so it could be normal for all i know.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

under capitalism the process of buying EVERY product is hurting somebody.

Not really. We participate in processes of exploitation, certainly. That's not quite the same thing.

But this is a bit different where you're talking about titillating stories. It's not the delivery of the product, but the product itself that is the problem - there is no non-capitalist way to produce titillating stories without hurting anyone.

 

[Dan U]

someone told me there is an extra 2 million copies going out of the NOTW tomorrow.....

There is a view/spin going round that print run is increased as it might be viewed as a collectors item.

Also an increased circ will look good to advertisers when they relaunch

 

[killer b]

Also an increased circ will look good to advertisers when they relaunch

no it won't. advertisers aren't thick.

 

[claphamboy]

no it won't. advertisers aren't thick.

This ^^^

The ad agencies look at average weekly circulation not single issues and they certainly will not be looking at the NOTW figures when SOS is launched, News Int' will have to knock out bloody good deals to get advertisers on board for the new title, which will have no audited circulation figures, esp. after this shit storm.

 

[Dan U]

Yep, cos once the dust settles, as it surely will, they will care about any.of this.

 

[killer b]

what?

 

[AKA pseudonym]

someone told me there is an extra 2 million copies going out of the NOTW tomorrow.....

yup.. and allegedly all profits are going to charidee... there is also some free charity ads.. will be interesting to see which poverty pimps lower themselves even more

 

[Dan U]

Look, if circulation is near the notw, the game is back on

Hopefully pressure will continue to be applied and it won't be

For now, as I posted earlier, follow the institutional investors. That is the next obvious target

 

[AKA pseudonym]

ebay

 

[weltweit]

I wonder how soon News International will launch their new Sunday paper.

If they try too soon advertisers and readers may think it too cynical and not join up / buy it, but if they leave it too late, readers may get used to what else is out there and become comfortable with the alternative.

I also wonder just what Rebekah Brook meant by "you will see in a years time" .. what could be going on that will take a year to come out? And will that impact on a new Sunday paper?

 

[Dan U]

There is now way Murdoch wants to lose the chance to cross.polinate his business to millions every Sunday.

It, and the advertisers, will be back eventually

 

[Pickman's model]

given that by 2002 the news of the world was hacking dead girls' phones, has anyone looked into whether in 2001 they were hacking phones belonging to 9/11 victims or their families?

if they were, that would really set the cat among the pigeons.

 

[Pickman's model]

For now, as I posted earlier, follow the institutional investors. That is the next obvious target

yes, because we should of course ignore the police contribution to this clusterfuck.

 

[Zabo]

Worth A Listen

Jonathan Maitland profiles Nick Davies, the investigative journalist behind the story of the News of the World phone-hacking allegations that are dominating the headlines.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012f6fz

 

[Dan U]

yes, because we should of course ignore the police contribution to this clusterfuck.

No, obviously we shouldnt.

The two aren't exclusive, I was just offering an idea to one side of it.

Go read the global media, in oz and America and see what corporate pressure Murdoch and his investors are under. There is a layer above the UK, let's attack it

 

[Pickman's model]

No, obviously we shouldnt.

The two aren't exclusive, I was just offering an idea to one side of it.

Go read the global media, in oz and America and see what corporate pressure Murdoch and his investors are under. There is a layer above the UK, let's attack it

see my post 3052

 

[Dan U]

I'm in a pub on my mobile, will do it later if that's ok.