Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared

[littlebabyjesus]

Ok, let's keep having children but confine them to a carbon-neutral encampment of some kind.

And no burping!

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok, let's keep having children but confine them to a carbon-neutral encampment of some kind.

no more bbq kids

 

[CNT36]

From the same paper:

The one fewer child thing sounds extreme but doable. The difficulty will be deciding which one ends up on the compost heap.

 

[editor]

Can we have a ticker showing the number of posters who have been converted over the course of this thread?

Why do you assume that any discussion about the terrible environmental impact of meat production automatically equates to some sort of attempt to 'convert' people? It's a very strange conclusion to reach, unless you're just trying to close down the debate.

 

[CNT36]

Why do you assume that any discussion about the terrible environmental impact of meat production automatically equates to some sort of attempt to 'convert' people? It's a very strange conclusion to reach, unless you're just trying to close down the debate.

If not what's the fucking point?

 

[editor]

If not what's the fucking point?

Not every discussion has to have an aim, a target or anything else past sharing knowledge. I'm not even sure what this 'conversion' process is supposed to involve.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why do you assume that any discussion about the terrible environmental impact of meat production automatically equates to some sort of attempt to 'convert' people? It's a very strange conclusion to reach, unless you're just trying to close down the debate.

That's an odd thing to say. Of course you should be trying to change people's minds on the issue. That's why it matters when you try to do so using crap stats and linking to articles advocating anti-human solutions.

 

[cheesethief]

Why do these surveys never include dog milk?

Owning a dog incurs a significant environmental impact, probably equivalent to at least one third of a child, I should imagine.

Furthermore, dogs never contribute anything back to the economy, they just eat a lot. But the lady dogs are capable of producing milk.

Ergo: Turn net environmental debtors into creditors by milking dogs whilst simultaneously eliminating the need for dairy milk or any of the other pseudo milks (which aren't really milk at all anyway).

 

[8ball]

Why do you assume that any discussion about the terrible environmental impact of meat production automatically equates to some sort of attempt to 'convert' people? It's a very strange conclusion to reach, unless you're just trying to close down the debate.

I love how you keep claiming not to be preaching, despite what can clearly be seen on this thread (#27 is a nice example of the analytical bent evident here).
Discussion is a fine thing, but I don't think you're any more interested in discussion than the Jehovah's Witnesses that turn up at my door - any points raised are met with a context-free copy&paste or accusations of "quibbling" (or "discussion" as some people call it).

Then there was your earlier post claiming not to be preaching which turned into preaching within the space of a sentence (#36).

It would probably be easier to just admit that you are advocating for something, aren't great with quantitative stuff, but think that these snippets indicate cutting meat production would be a good thing, environmentally speaking.

 

[editor]

I love how you keep claiming not to be preaching, despite what can clearly be seen on this thread (#27 is a nice example of the analytical bent evident here).
Discussion is a fine thing, but I don't think you're any more interested in discussion than the Jehovah's Witnesses that turn up at my door - any points raised are met with a context-free copy&paste or accusations of "quibbling" (or "discussion" as some people call it).

Then there was your earlier post claiming not to be preaching which turned into preaching within the space of a sentence (#36).

It would probably be easier to just admit that you are advocating for something, aren't great with quantitative stuff, but think that these snippets indicate cutting meat production would be a good thing, environmentally speaking.

I see you're straight back to the tedious ad hominems again. I wonder why you feel the need to constantly try to turn the argument into a personal one?

 

[8ball]

Why do these surveys never include dog milk?

Also, it lasts longer than any other type of milk...

 

[editor]

That's an odd thing to say. Of course you should be trying to change people's minds on the issue. That's why it matters when you try to do so using crap stats and linking to articles advocating anti-human solutions.

I'm still waiting for you to post up some links to alternative research that rubbishes the "crap stats" and multiple links to research that was posted earlier. Why won't you do that? And what "anti-human" link have I posted up?

 

[2hats]

I think it's the bars on the first diagram.

Meaning if everybody transferred in exact even proportions, then used 4 times as much milk, then the impact would be higher.

Which is... enlightening?

Bar chart interpretation failure ahoy!

 

[8ball]

Bar chart interpretation failure ahoy!

Well, who knows - I was just guessing what the interpretation might have been.

Any suggestions?

 

[hash tag]

One little link about soya beans Soy | Industries | WWF
it is not without issues.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

i daresay a serving of beans will go on to create a bit of methane which may not be taken into account in the chart

Carbon arseprint.

 

[editor]

One little link about soya beans Soy | Industries | WWF
it is not without issues.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that soy beans are the perfect answer, but they certainly form part of the solution to countering the horrendous environmental damage caused by the increasing growth of the meat and dairy industry.

And just before someone tries to put words in my mouth once again, let me repeat - not once have I tried to tell anyone to stop eating meat. But I do think people should try and reduce their meat intake.

 

[8ball]

I see you're straight back to the tedious ad hominems again. I wonder why you feel the need to constantly try to turn the argument into a personal one?

So it's an ad hominem if I point out your posting style on this thread?
Take #72 - responding to accusation of bad stats with a demand for better stats "rubbishing" the bad ones.

This says more than you know.

 

[8ball]

And just before someone tries to put words in my mouth once again, let me repeat - not once have I tried to tell anyone to stop eating meat. But I do think people should try and reduce their meat intake.

That's the spirit!

I agree generally, though I gather meat consumption is on a slight decline here, where it is having a sharp increase in a lot of places. Not to say that doing a little doesn't help a little.

 

[klang]

Can we have a ticker showing the number of posters who have been converted over the course of this thread?

I for one used to fuck without a purpose. Now I fuck for climate change.

 

[editor]

So it's an ad hominem if I point out your posting style on this thread?
Take #72 - responding to accusation of bad stats with a demand for better stats "rubbishing" the bad ones.

This says more than you know.

It says that I've been posting up articles that are backed by credible research and those rubbishing them are unable to produce anything to back up their arguments, just empty rhetoric and ad hominens.

 

[editor]

That's the spirit!

I agree generally, though I gather meat consumption is on a slight decline here, where it is having a sharp increase in a lot of places. Not to say that doing a little doesn't help a little.

What happens here is just a drop in the ocean when it comes to climate change.

A new major analysis suggests meat consumption is set to climb steeply as the world population increases along with average individual income, and could play a significant role in increasing carbon emissions and reducing biodiversity.

“What’s happening is a big concern and if meat consumption goes up further it’s going to be massively more so,” said Prof Tim Key, an epidemiologist at the University of Oxford and co-author of the review. “On a broad level you can say that eating substantial amounts of meat is bad for the environment.”

The review, published in the journal Science, found that high levels of meat consumption also have negative health consequences, leading to an increased risk of colorectal cancer and possibly of cardiovascular disease.

The average amount of meat consumed per person globally has nearly doubled in the past 50 years, from around 23kg in 1961 to 43kg in 2014. The increase in average individual meat consumption means total meat production has been growing at a much faster than the rate of population growth, increasing four or fivefold since 1961.

Rising global meat consumption 'will devastate environment'

 

[8ball]

It says that I've been posting up articles that are backed by credible research and those rubbishing them are unable to produce anything back up their arguments.

Well, that would be an understandable guess to make.

 

[editor]

Well, that would be an understandable guess to make.

You're clean out of ammo, aren't you? No doubt that means nore ad hominems are coming my way

 

[8ball]

What happens here is just a drop in the ocean when it comes to climate change.
Rising global meat consumption 'will devastate environment'

Yeah, that's the thing.
When economies hit certain stages, you tend to see sharp rises in meat consumption, and a lot of places are hitting that stage or will be soon.

Without the kind of changes that are pretty much fantastical with our current economic and political systems, I've no idea how we can avoid a massive dumping of carbon into the atmosphere as are result. All ideas welcome, though.

 

[editor]

Here's the scale of the problem.

Global meat production has increased rapidly over the past 50 years - as seen below, total production has grown 4-5 fold since 1961. The chart below shows global meat production by region, measured in tonnes

Meat and Seafood Production & Consumption

 

[Enviro]

So it's an ad hominem if I point out your posting style on this thread?...

Isn't that how ad hominems work? Playing the player not the ball?

 

[editor]

 

[Orang Utan]

I've managed to find one decent enough vegan cheese, but are there any decent butter substitutes? Most margarines are not IME. They just taste oily rather than buttery

 

[editor]

Isn't that how ad hominems work? Playing the player not the ball?

Yep. Sadly he doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word.