Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency

[tardigrade]

what is my job is promotecting myself and other marginalised people from the patriarchy

Oh the irony!

 

[InArduisFouette]

Way to trash another thread! Totally unnecessary post and listing members is uncalled for. Go find some other thread to play in.

the remarkably lack of insight you have displayed in the less than 48 hours you've been on the site is remarkable,

is it any wonder that people think you are someone who has returned after flouncing or being banned - although there is a habit of suggesting that

 

[InArduisFouette]

Oh the irony!

so it;s "ironic" that a multiply marginalised woman , witha professional background in health and soial care has a deep interest in making sure that women's voices , and other minoritiesed groups voices are heard and calls out the bullshit that the patriarchy and it;s handmaids tries to impose as normal ...

 

[weepiper]

The fuck is this shit? Honestly? Why does every thread about this topic veer off in flames because of two or three hobbyhorse posters?

 

[LakieLady]

Yes. It does work.

But it is work. It takes determination discipline commitment etc


I've seen and experienced that one good example being shunned, mocked, sidelined etc .

The "can't you take a joke?!" thing gets used by men about other men too.

That kind of bullying by "banter" is really obnoxious, but I've found "Jokes are funny, that wasn't", or "I can take a joke just fine, let me know when you come up with one" often shuts people up.

For a few years, I worked in a team that had never had a woman in it before I arrived and once I established some boundaries, it was fine. There was one guy who was a lech under the guise of "having a laugh" and an utter pain in the arse, until the day I said "Fred, the sexual harassment policy was approved last week, I really don't want to be the first person to use it.".

He nearly shat himself and never spoke to me about anything other than work after that.

 

[InArduisFouette]

InArduisFouette actually makes some pretty insightful social analysis. It can be tricky to recognise this (for me, at least) because the analysis is always seen through one very specific lens (and with plenty of invective to boot). The gut reaction is to roll the eyes and think “not THIS again”. But I generally find it is worth persisting in the attempt to read through it and get to the point beneath. Somebody who has had to spend their life reflecting on the intersection of society and gender is normally worth listening to on subjects that relate to the intersection of society and gender.

Thank you for your kind words and for recognising my personal and professional experiences and education ,

I'm very much an unfinished article but that is what 30 + years of trauma can do to people

 

[kabbes]

Okay so now we're doing the "I'm the good guy" stuff.


We really need to get down to the stuff where men are saying "in what ways am I not the good guy?"

I’ll say this, all arrogance aside. I was brought up by what at the time would have been known as a ‘militant feminist’, which started me out with a big advantage in this stuff. And later, therapy followed by years of self-reflection arising from studying psychology gradually revealed to me all kind of other ways I had internalised patriarchal ways of being, and I’ve spent years working on that. But part of that awareness simply means I now notice after the fact the myriad ways I unintentionally end up complicit in men are more important. Let nobody think I’m absolving myself here. The construction of the self happens in constant dialogue with others, and so the worlds of those others become part of how we understand who we are. We are born into a world not of our making, which already contains ready-made subject positions for us, and we are treated as if that’s who we already are, and so that’s what we think we are. Nobody gets away with that, and it’s all part of the system that includes violence against women as a normal part of how it all works. Don’t ask “how can he do that?” unless you are also willing to ask “how can I do this?”

 

[Red Cat]

Porn is a massive problem. But most men who use porn don’t want to look at that because they don’t want to give up their porn habits.

Porn is a huge problem. Stats from the actual article:

Child sexual abuse and exploitation increased by more than 400% between 2013 and 2022. Offences committed by children increased to 55.6% of the total. The average age of victims is 13, with suspects averaging 15 years old.

Also

Other data shows the fastest-growing groups of domestic abuse offenders and victims of domestic abuse are those aged 16 to 19.

 

[planetgeli]

On an optimistic note, I recall a lecture from an American child psychologist, where she said that it takes only one positive role model in a child's life to make a profound difference.

It can take only one. But that statement should never be read as one positive role model WILL make a profound difference. I'm sure you know this.

Even if it isn't true, it seems a good principle on which to work - if we, whoever we are, can be that dissenting voice against the chorus of male privilege and all that entails, we might be all it needs to make the difference. It's a principle I definitely am always striving to enshrine. And not just kids - I truly believe, and I've experienced it - that it only takes one person, in the spirit of that film "12 good men", to say "Er, hang on a minute, that's not OK", and change can happen, even when it's just that bloke making sexist remarks, or trotting out racist jokes.

True. But also why I have no friends.

On another point - I don't duck out. I read, respectfully (mostly), and try to offer something only when I'm pretty sure I can contribute. Violence against women is a woman's topic and should be dominated by women's voices. OTOH, I do believe it's 'the patriarchy' at root, and that, by definition, is a male problem. A societal problem unchangeable in our life times let alone overnight. My only answer is to change the dominant culture by stealth, by permeation, by talking these ideas in our daily lives to both friends and foe.

Even if you end up with no friends.

 

[existentialist]

That's great, but it's a pity that certain forum members think that they can ride roughshod over other members.

You'll get used to it. I have grown, hugely, as a direct result of my participation in this community.

 

[Jammy smears]

That's great, but it's a pity that certain forum members think that they can ride roughshod over other members.

It's easy enough to scroll on past annoying people, just swat them away like flies

 

[InArduisFouette]

You'll get used to it. I have grown, hugely, as a direct result of my participation in this community.

Urban really isn't a place for the shy or the timid, good debate and deeper understanding come from a place where robust challenges are encouraged

 

[Pickman's model]

You'll get used to it. I have grown, hugely, as a direct result of my participation in this community.

Yeh but you're an intelligent and reflective human being

 

[Jammy smears]

I've talked about porn with my kids throughout their teens, I didn't want my son thinking that what he may watch has any bearing on what actual women enjoy and to warn my daughter that she has a voice and needs to use it and not be coerced into doing stuff she doesn't want to do. We've all got to do more than just discuss the basics of the birds and the bees. Maybe more time at school should be dedicated to this sort of thing?

 

[equationgirl]

This is a very odd response.

You've written quite long and droning screeds about systemic and institutionalised misogyny, about how it's wrong to victim blame or belittle the female experience, whilst doing precisely that to another female poster.

Are you a Moderator? Because you certainly seem to be behaving as if you own this debate and the only opinion that matters is your own. I'd really suggest you examine and reflect on your aggressive and confrontational posting style as it's not doing you any favours.

And thank you for the warm welcome.

Urban moderator names appear in red, all other posters are blue.

So no, not a mod.

 

[equationgirl]

Urban really isn't a place for the shy or the timid, good debate and deeper understanding come from a place where robust challenges are encouraged

That doesn't give you the right to behave in the way you have been on this thread.

 

[existentialist]

Porn is a huge problem. Stats from the actual article:

Child sexual abuse and exploitation increased by more than 400% between 2013 and 2022. Offences committed by children increased to 55.6% of the total. The average age of victims is 13, with suspects averaging 15 years old.

Also

Other data shows the fastest-growing groups of domestic abuse offenders and victims of domestic abuse are those aged 16 to 19.

In my more mischievous moments, I've thought that what we need is a State Pornography Service, that could flood the market with sexually-responsible pornography, scripted to model sex-affirmative attitudes around sex and relationships. But. then, I am a hopeless idealist.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Could perhaps try it on other sites, i.e. not Urban75.

I have no idea where.

I hear there's been an exodus from the AVforums, they're probably in need of a few new members.

 

[tardigrade]

the remarkably lack of insight you have displayed in the less than 48 hours you've been on the site is remarkable,

is it any wonder that people think you are someone who has returned after flouncing or being banned - although there is a habit of suggesting that

so it;s "ironic" that a multiply marginalised woman , witha professional background in health and soial care has a deep interest in making sure that women's voices , and other minoritiesed groups voices are heard and calls out the bullshit that the patriarchy and it;s handmaids tries to impose as normal ...

Whatever your gender, you are a misogynistic bully, who delights in demeaning others. Even when you know they are female (the laughing emojis on most of my posts, in this and another thread are an example of this). This totally negates your claim that you are against the patriarchy.
I suspect that you are an unfulfilled, egotistical nobody, and you hate that about yourself. Hence, your unwarranted attacks on others.
Look in the mirror, and see what's staring back at you. It's the face of your self hatred, that you reflect onto others.
Pitiful and pathetic. Ignore button activated.

 

[Callie]

Please for the sake of the thread if people are struggling with another posters posting style can they just put them on ignore, rejoin the actual thread discussion and stop bickering.

Please. (Thanks!)

 

[Orang Utan]

I have probably put less energy into challenging sexist behaviour amongst colleagues or customers as I have done when challenging other bigoted behaviours. I have endeavoured to change this since having a few epiphanies about the insidiousness of partiarchy and misogyny, mostly from reading this board, but also from real-life conversations and observations. Most of this has been in the past 5-10 years, so that’s quite slow progress.
One of the next things to work on for me (and others) is working out how to safely call out sexual harassment and other aggressive misogynist behaviour when in public. I don’t encounter/notice it amongst friends or at events I go to (not saying it doesn’t happen), apart from when on late night trains and buses, but I have certainly bottled it on occasion, due to fear of getting a beating. There are, however, online courses and the like on how to challenge certain behaviours, which I really need to get around to undertaking.
I’m glad there are now advertising campaigns aimed at young men that deal with this to a certain extent, but they only focus on encouraging them to challenge creepy misogynist behaviour amongst friends. Making such behaviour taboo/unacceptable amongst strangers is the next step, I guess?

 

[tardigrade]

Please for the sake of the thread if people are struggling with another posters posting style can they just put them on ignore, rejoin the actual thread discussion and stop bickering.

Please. (Thanks!)

Have done just that.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Whatever your gender, you are a misogynistic bully, who delights in demeaning others. Even when you know they are female (the laughing emojis on most of my posts, in this and another thread are an example of this). This totally negates your claim that you are against the patriarchy.
I suspect that you are an unfulfilled, egotistical nobody, and you hate that about yourself. Hence, your unwarranted attacks on others.
Look in the mirror, and see what's staring back at you. It's the face of your self hatred, that you reflect onto others.
Pitiful and pathetic. Ignore button activated.

and then 'Tardigrade' wonders why peopel thought they came on the site, less than 48 hours ago, to shit stir.

but oddly enough we see the behaviours i;ve discussed aobut those within the patriarchy who set out to attack women who won;t be demure and take the patreiachal shite quietly like a good girl

 

[Callie]

I've talked about porn with my kids throughout their teens, I didn't want my son thinking that what he may watch has any bearing on what actual women enjoy and to warn my daughter that she has a voice and needs to use it and not be coerced into doing stuff she doesn't want to do. We've all got to do more than just discuss the basics of the birds and the bees. Maybe more time at school should be dedicated to this sort of thing?

It's a nice dream but I can't imagine there would be much scope for frank realistic discussions about sex in schools? We have a few teachers..what's it like these days?

 

[equationgirl]

I am fortunate in that I no longer have to have daily conversations about why certain behaviours in the workplace are sexist and misogynistic. So there's that.

Only because I left that employer, not because things actually changed so I didn't have to...

 

[Rompipalle]

what a surprise , just the response one would expect from a man who is lacking in insight and understanding of the topic at at hand.

It's not my job to please you or massage your ego. what is my job is promotecting myself and other marginalised people from the patriarchy

You clearly don't know Derek S-H in the slightest.

 

[Callie]

Orang Utan I think (hope) people think a lot more about accountability these days. It's not enough to just manage yourself but it is wrong to sit back and not call out observed bad behaviour/attitudes in others. I feel like this is a change we are seeing and it's much, much more commonplace then say 30 years ago. So progress? Slow progress! Which is why again an increase in violence is mad. Are people fighting harder against that side?

 

[planetgeli]

Orang Utan I think (hope) people think a lot more about accountability these days. It's not enough to just manage yourself but it is wrong to sit back and not call out observed bad behaviour/attitudes in others. I feel like this is a change we are seeing and it's much, much more commonplace then say 30 years ago. So progress? Slow progress! Which is why again an increase in violence is mad. Are people fighting harder against that side?

More poverty. Poverty is a factor.

 

[trashpony]

if you join a new website, shouldn’t you try and sort of fit in, rather than trying to take over the decks?

 

[Orang Utan]

More poverty. Poverty is a factor.

There certainly seems to be more anger