Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency
- Thread starter ElizabethofYork
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Try getting a life
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I have one. I'm sitting in a cafe in ortigia and whiling away an hour toying with my friends on urban. And you.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
In just a couple of pages you've gone from posting thoughtful and relevant stuff to, well, to this.
I echo whoever it was said that maybe men should STFU on this thread until further notice. I'll go first.
Good for you.
Silas Loom
Advanced. Forthright. Signifficant.
Except that other women have said, in effect: the problem is men, why should women be expected to solve it? And that seemed fair, too.
But I see from Cupid’s post that I’ve posted far too much already so, yeah, let’s try at least a thread curfew. Going second.
Oh, it was just a joke towards being called arrogant. Better that than acting all hurt and calling for support, eh?
I even understood the words in that one. The arrogant bugger needs to step it up.
I think that's definitely the case but I have already encouraged my daughter to respond violently and that upsets me. She has already been in a situation where she "needed" too. She has been repeatedly injured (sometimes daily) by a lad and her privacy invaded leading to us moving schools due to the schools failure to sort it. She's just finished her second year at the new school. She's 8.
It's like people have said we need large scale change. Men need to stop being shitheads and things changed to stop encouraging it. I try to pass on better things to my son but as well as all the usual crap (he got sucked down a Tate rabbit hole and started a career in copywriting!) he has the influence of his child and woman abusing stepfather.
I can try and model better behaviour. I've been set up in an activity I do as a "decent bloke" for the young lads to be around (bit of imposter syndrome there).
I can not be an abuser myself and be aware of my own behaviour and how what I think of as innocent actions can be scary/creepy/controlling from another perspective.
Beyond that what can any of us do about the proper arseholes or to actually change things so that women in the short term don't have to be the ones to change their behaviour?
Genuine question by the way. Not some gotcha shit if it reads that way. I can also shut up if preferred but a number of people have said men need to change. I'm open to it but also don't want to hijack the thread.
Callie
Pivoting
Linking this back to the OP I think Tate etc are a big concern. And possibly driving an increase in violent attitudes towards women (/anyone). What drives the popularity there? How do they get sucked in? Is it just normal catching a younger male trying to navigate dating, relationships, their value in society?
How old is your lad? Is he still in that zone? Can you talk to him about it all?
He's in his early twenties at the moment.
There are a lot of particular circumstances that make things difficult that I don't really want to dicuss but let's just say as well as few positive male role models very few consistent female ones as well and has been seriously let down.
ETA I'll try and reply properly to this got distracted by the personal stuff
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
On an optimistic note, I recall a lecture from an American child psychologist, where she said that it takes only one positive role model in a child's life to make a profound difference.
Even if it isn't true, it seems a good principle on which to work - if we, whoever we are, can be that dissenting voice against the chorus of male privilege and all that entails, we might be all it needs to make the difference. It's a principle I definitely am always striving to enshrine. And not just kids - I truly believe, and I've experienced it - that it only takes one person, in the spirit of that film "12 good men", to say "Er, hang on a minute, that's not OK", and change can happen, even when it's just that bloke making sexist remarks, or trotting out racist jokes.
Even if it isn't true, it seems a good principle on which to work - if we, whoever we are, can be that dissenting voice against the chorus of male privilege and all that entails, we might be all it needs to make the difference. It's a principle I definitely am always striving to enshrine. And not just kids - I truly believe, and I've experienced it - that it only takes one person, in the spirit of that film "12 good men", to say "Er, hang on a minute, that's not OK", and change can happen, even when it's just that bloke making sexist remarks, or trotting out racist jokes.
story
Changing the facts
This is just notes rather than a proper post.
Men saying "I'll shut up and piss off"...
It's a bit of a cop out at this point.
Why is it a binary: either stay and dominate, or be silent?
We've had plenty of threads where men did shut up and leave. Presumably some continued to read along.
Once men leave, women remaining in the discussion are once again carrying the lion's share of trying to sort it out.
Lots of women are bored and fed up with going over the same ground without anything changing.
Men are saying "it's not me, I don't understand it". I really think men need to dig into kabbes post about re-thinking how ones own behaviour IS contributing to the problem. Even Good Men.
It's been useful and interesting (also upsetting) to see/read what women say about their experience of misogyny.
Men say they find it difficult or whatever so back away. Women don't have that privilege, it's their lives experience.
Mirror threads set up for men to talk about this stuff don't get traction or traffic. Some men try. The big swinging dicks never turn up.
We've had plenty of threads where women talk about the bullshit and ask "when do the thoughtful men arrive...?"
Maybe, instead of leaving, it's time for men to experiment with ways to discuss this issue without becoming dominant.
Maybe if they can talk about it with women present they can then start talking about it when women aren't present.
Like I says, these notes don't necessarily run on from one to the next.
Men saying "I'll shut up and piss off"...
It's a bit of a cop out at this point.
Why is it a binary: either stay and dominate, or be silent?
We've had plenty of threads where men did shut up and leave. Presumably some continued to read along.
Once men leave, women remaining in the discussion are once again carrying the lion's share of trying to sort it out.
Lots of women are bored and fed up with going over the same ground without anything changing.
Men are saying "it's not me, I don't understand it". I really think men need to dig into kabbes post about re-thinking how ones own behaviour IS contributing to the problem. Even Good Men.
It's been useful and interesting (also upsetting) to see/read what women say about their experience of misogyny.
Men say they find it difficult or whatever so back away. Women don't have that privilege, it's their lives experience.
Mirror threads set up for men to talk about this stuff don't get traction or traffic. Some men try. The big swinging dicks never turn up.
We've had plenty of threads where women talk about the bullshit and ask "when do the thoughtful men arrive...?"
Maybe, instead of leaving, it's time for men to experiment with ways to discuss this issue without becoming dominant.
Maybe if they can talk about it with women present they can then start talking about it when women aren't present.
Like I says, these notes don't necessarily run on from one to the next.
story
Changing the facts
Yes. It does work.
But it is work. It takes determination discipline commitment etc
I've seen and experienced that one good example being shunned, mocked, sidelined etc .
The "can't you take a joke?!" thing gets used by men about other men too.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Oh, that's another tactic. "Sorry, I don't get it..."
Done that a few times. You have to remember to play it to the "audience".
story
Changing the facts
"I didn't mean it like that!"
I pulled up a pal making a joke about a young woman walking past. Everyone joined in but me. I reminded him his own daughter was about the same age.
"Oh I didn't mean it like that!"
Knee jerk reflexive Not-me-guv .
I insisted. "How did you mean it? I don't get it" etc. It got messy. Eventually, after about 20 minutes of him doubling down and trying to get everyone else on board, the table agreed with me and he was given the "yeah it's not on mate"s.
Afterwards he "pretended" to kick me in the shin and told me I'd fucked everyone off and spoiled the night.
Prick gonna prick. He's still a prick. I didn't achieve anything much, not really.
Derek S-H
Klaatu. Barada. Nikto.
This is a very odd response.
You've written quite long and droning screeds about systemic and institutionalised misogyny, about how it's wrong to victim blame or belittle the female experience, whilst doing precisely that to another female poster.
Are you a Moderator? Because you certainly seem to be behaving as if you own this debate and the only opinion that matters is your own. I'd really suggest you examine and reflect on your aggressive and confrontational posting style as it's not doing you any favours.
And thank you for the warm welcome.
surreybrowncap
“Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand"
Maybe not with that individual but certainly with the rest.....
LakieLady
Well-Known Member
That's awful. I'm really sorry she's had to deal with this shit at such an early age.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
"Yeah, I didn't think you'd be someone to say something like that. So what did you mean?"
Yeah. But they forget that she's someone's daughter, don't they?
Nice one. I don't usually put that much effort into it...!
Yeah, you did. Not necessarily with him, but...play to the audience. Always. You empowered a few people right there.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I'd definitely use porn more if 99% of it wasn't horrible, misogynistic shit.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Derek - and, welcome, by the way - moderators don't assume quite the same high-and-mighty line that is commonplace on many bulletin boards. Maybe that leaves a vacuum, but the reality here is that the forums here are amazingly lightly moderated, which means that moderator (or even quasi-moderator) input isn't quite the big deal it tends to be elsewhere.
Don't want to or it's there and they have a habit?
On the positive side my son thinks porn is a serious issue that needs dealing with that causes problems for women.
Not getting at you and this could be an in to maybe get someone thinking but it should be about her personal worth not just her worth to someone else who is probably a man.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
what a surprise , just the response one would expect from a man who is lacking in insight and understanding of the topic at at hand.
It's not my job to please you or massage your ego. what is my job is promotecting myself and other marginalised people from the patriarchy
That's great, but it's a pity that certain forum members think that they can ride roughshod over other members.
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