And you're arrogant enough to lecture someone without knowing them.You're naive enough to think that the world divides into negative and positive influences.
And you're arrogant enough to lecture someone without knowing them.You're naive enough to think that the world divides into negative and positive influences.
Yes, I think this is a big problem in schools. Children are 'taught' what is important, how to think etc. The focus should be on experiencing and thinking for themselves.I think many people overestimate their influence on children by focusing on what children are 'taught'.
Children need experience of working things out, not being 'taught' or given information.
The results of experiments are what they are but how you interpret those results can be highly contested. I wouldn't locate this as individualised beliefs or dispositions so much as a combination of meaning-making within social contexts and the norming of certain responses that make it taboo to intervene in some situations rather than others. I'll leave it there, because it's not really the thread for this, but there is a great textual analysis of eyewitnesses to the Jamie Bulger murder that demonstrates the point.
I agree with you - mostly.The idea that women should learn self defence to protect themselves from violence is frankly nuts. It says that women should be responsible for their own safety...this in light of the appalling violence that women experience, often from their own husbands/boyfriends/ families is grossly deluded and in itself quite misogynistic.
I would like to see the report in full. Does it describe or show the data outlining who the transgressions were? Does it analyse that data? Because therein will lie any potential solution to this awful issue.
I suspect that many of the women will have been victims of domestic / partner violence. And it would not surprise me to see data showing that drugs or alcohol will have been involved in a substantial number of cases.
But telling a woman to go learn self defence is not the amswer...When many of the women will have been victims of repeated violence, coersion, emotional abuse.. and may have children to protect aswell..
Having safe houses is really important. Places where victims can escape to and be protected.
Arresting and prosecuting violent individuals. Intensive and long term counselling for victims. Equally there needs to be counselling or some intervention for perpetrators to bring them to an understanding of their own violence and work out why they have resorted to violence and why and how they must stop.
Education needs to have input in this as future generations must learn that violence against women and children is not acceptable in any way. But more than education...the lesson needs to be experienced in real life too. Children need positive male role models. This may come down to communities working to ensure that young boys, whose fathers are absent or erratically involved in their lives, are supported and experience positive male role models who respect women. The idea that male kids are exposed to the likes of the Tate brothers...really shows how social media can negatively infiltrate society and influence young minds.
Every misogynistic and violent comment promoting any coersion and or violence towards women needs to be removed and challenged. Those who post misogynistic comments promoting violence against women should be tracked.
If anyone is really serious about stopping violence against women they need to go to the source and work from there...ie the perpetrator...and the young kid who exhibits violent language / thoughts / actions towards women. Starting at school age.
Yes, I think this is a big problem in schools. Children are 'taught' what is important, how to think etc. The focus should be on experiencing and thinking for themselves.
This is my way of thinking as well. We have to find ways to protect ourselves. Violence against women has been going on for too long, and there's no sign of any progress to stop it.I agree with you - mostly.
But i have changed my mind somewhat recently. I always used to get annoyed with people who suggested that women should learn self-defence techniques, because it felt a bit like victim-blaming.
However, I'm starting to think it mightnt be such a bad idea. We can't depend on the police, or any other organisation, to help us. We've tried that for many years, and it's failed dismally. We can't depend on boys being educated to treat girls and women with respect. That's failed dismally. We can't expect a post-feminist society to magically make things better - it hasn't.
So taking steps to defend ourselves is looking more and more sensible.
I think you're describing being pragmatic.I agree with you - mostly.
But i have changed my mind somewhat recently. I always used to get annoyed with people who suggested that women should learn self-defence techniques, because it felt a bit like victim-blaming.
However, I'm starting to think it mightnt be such a bad idea. We can't depend on the police, or any other organisation, to help us. We've tried that for many years, and it's failed dismally. We can't depend on boys being educated to treat girls and women with respect. That's failed dismally. We can't expect a post-feminist society to magically make things better - it hasn't.
So taking steps to defend ourselves is looking more and more sensible.
Who said I would be using the established curriculum? If that were forced onto me, I would find ways to teach it without all the prejudices and conditioning that goes on in classrooms.What's different about what you were suggesting with home ed?
Who said I would be using the established curriculum? If that were forced onto me, I would find ways to teach it without all the prejudices and conditioning that goes on in classrooms.
I was not actually referring to youHere we go again. My opinion, according to you is 'nuts' and 'mysoynistic'. It appears that some people can't have a conversation without resorting to insults. My opinion is just that, my opinion. I'm not asking anybody to agree with it, I frankly don't care if you do.
OK, I have edited.Not to nitpick but the family repeatedly said his name was James. The media called him Jamie for their own purposes and myth-making around violence.
Absolutely. That's a very important consideration.It feels like victim blaming because victims blame themselves for not fighting back. They hold themselves responsible for their own abuse because they ‘should’ have done x or y. How would you ensure this doesn’t happen?
This is my way of thinking as well. We have to find ways to protect ourselves. Violence against women has been going on for too long, and there's no sign of any progress to stop it.
But it isn't happening is it? And in the meantime women are being abused, attacked and murdered every single day. Domestic violence in the home is more difficult to find solutions for, but a woman should be able to defend herself by any means necessary. i know it's not as simple as that, but something has to change.The real lessons need to be learned by young boys, teen boys and men.
Oh look yet another new member just pops up to attack marginalised women while white knighting ...tardigrade - I'm also a new Member and don't have the privileges to write a PM to you.
But I just wanted to say that I've been very unhappy at the way one Member has treated you on this Thread. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong; I think it's important that people are mindful at how much women's voices are either marginalised or ignored completely, and I'm glad you've decided to carry on speaking the truth of your experiences.
Oh look yet another new member just pops up to attack marginalised women while white knighting ...
when you look at the rise 'home schooling' as a Political Movement in the US it;s almost entirely driven by MAGAt / Gammon talking points and usually places the empotional labour on the wives /mothers or elder female children.Of course, home schooling will insulate children from the malign influence of other kids...but it also deprives them of the moderating influence of other kids. Can we be so sure that every home schooler is possessed of the highest motives and most laudable outlooks?
The fundamental problem with the suggestion as we saw with the poster who popped up yesterday and posted in such a away as to present it as some kind of panacea - which is where the victim blaming starts , and also ignores the evidence from trained individuals that the fancy , drilled techniques that are taught in the Dojo or in Police/Prison 'officer safety' and Health /Social Care PMVA simply don't work when it comes down to it and the techniques that a known to work and are known to be remembered as the techniques that are very high risk ones rather than the ones designed ot be 'painful' but not damaging and often rely on the subject 'allowing' the initial hold / lock to be put be in place.I agree with you - mostly.
But i have changed my mind somewhat recently. I always used to get annoyed with people who suggested that women should learn self-defence techniques, because it felt a bit like victim-blaming.
However, I'm starting to think it mightnt be such a bad idea. We can't depend on the police, or any other organisation, to help us. We've tried that for many years, and it's failed dismally. We can't depend on boys being educated to treat girls and women with respect. That's failed dismally. We can't expect a post-feminist society to magically make things better - it hasn't.
So taking steps to defend ourselves is looking more and more sensible.
totally agree that the solution is education . Educate the boys before they become men.... and .... train girls in self defence so that they have the mental confidence to stand up for themselves. Much (not all) of the violence is perpetrated by bullies and standard thinking shows us that standing up to them is effective. Self-defence wont protect you against a group or a more powerful assailant but I believe it gives a person confidence to do something and overcome the paralysis of fear. It also paves the way for recovery when it doesnt.I've no issue with anyone learning self defence. But I do not see it as a "solution" to male violence against women. Mostly because it may help in a one on one situation with an opportunistic assault..but I don't see it working so well within a relationship...which is where many victims of violence are..
I know for a fact no matter how many self defence lessons I might take...I would never have the physical strength to stop someone or a group of men violently assaulting me. I used to be able to run pretty fast..but not anymore.
I would suggest that teaching girls how to run and seek help might also be a focus. How to always carry pepper spray or similar...how to carry an alarm...how to be aware of surroundings...how to avoid situations.. but again this does feel like victim blaming.
The real lessons need to be learned by young boys, teen boys and men.
Because society tells us this every damn time. The people holding power tell victims that the victims are the ones at fault, not the the systems and processes that power put in place .It feels like victim blaming because victims blame themselves for not fighting back. They hold themselves responsible for their own abuse because they ‘should’ have done x or y. How would you ensure this doesn’t happen?
It's interesting how often men call women and girls they don't like bullies ... it's also interesting who the women they don't like are ... and what theat boils down to is women and girls who do not take their misogynistic shit , and who display characteristics which are praised in boys and men buit seen as unattractive and threatening in womentotally agree that the solution is education . Educate the boys before they become men.... and .... train girls in self defence so that they have the mental confidence to stand up for themselves. Much (not all) of the violence is perpetrated by bullies and standard thinking shows us that standing up to them is effective. Self-defence wont protect you against a group or a more powerful assailant but I believe it gives a person confidence to do something and overcome the paralysis of fear. It also paves the way for recovery when it doesnt.
My wife and I had a good conversation a while back about the whole "would you prefer to meet a bear or a man in a forest" and it opened my eyes. I am trying to get this across to my sons now. One of my sons has a daughter (she is 5). I really hope something improves before she is a teen. Until then, I will challenge misogyny when I find it, and I will encourage her to be confident and take no shit ..... martial arts or boxing will be thrown in there later too.
Or because they're scared that they could then be subjected to abuse/violence.One of the reasons people don’t intervene effectively when they see people being abusive is because it triggers their own trauma response
Or because they're scared that they could then be subjected to abuse/violence.
There is an ‘ignore poster’ button which is a useful friend. We all have at least one person on there.Thank you Derek. To be honest, I woke up this morning and decided not to post on this forum anymore. It isn't just in this thread that I've been made to feel unwelcome (not by everybody). The 'Shoplifting on the Rise' thread also erupted into insults and ridicule. The same poster from here came at me in that thread, along with a couple of others. The result was that one long standing member has left the forum for a while.
I think the problem is one that most forums tend to have. Certain members, who have been around for a while, jump on newbies when their views are challenged. They'll make unfounded accusations, and just generally be aggressive and bullying. This is in the hope that the newbie will leave. Then they can feel a sense of power, that they made this happen. It's all rather childish and pathetic.
Due to your kind words and other members being more friendly, I'll stay. I hope you're not subjected to the same vitriol.