Mass stabbing at Southport Kids’ Club 29/7/24

[two sheds]

Death penalty for Reform UK MPs? Hard but fair.

 

[Aaronf]

So I'm guessing some might vote yes for the sake of it and there's not too much to be read into it. I think though as well it's likely that some of the public would vote yes if it ever had a referendum and not just random polls on a media website?

That's general public and not just Reform MP's. I'm not defending reform MP's at all, I'm just saying it's far more likely that the media would report them as being in favour rather than say Joe Bloggs down the road who nobody knows.

 

[elbows]

So I'm guessing some might vote yes for the sake of it and there's not too much to be read into it. I think though as well it's likely that some of the public would vote yes if it ever had a referendum and not just random polls on a media website?

That's general public and not just Reform MP's. I'm not defending reform MP's at all, I'm just saying it's far more likely that the media would report them as being in favour rather than say Joe Bloggs down the road who nobody knows.

The sort of numbers that surveys generate on this matter was historically very high and only got below 50% about 10-11 years ago:

eg this from a 2023 article:

When the death penalty is abolished, more and more citizens come to regard it as a punishment of the past. In the UK, surveys have shown that continued support for capital punishment fell from 74% in 1986 to 65% in 1996, then to 50% in 2007. It finally dropped below 50% in 2014. Moreover, support for the death penalty is at its lowest in younger age groups.

Crude opinion polls on the death penalty distort public debate

blogs.law.ox.ac.uk

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I've always been very much against the death penalty, but this case has made me waver in my opinion.

 

[maomao]

From the very little information we have, a psychotic illness seems unlikely; he seems to be clear of what he did and pleased that he did it. I'm satisfied with the sentence, a whole life tariff would have been good but I don't think laws should be changed to allow it. The parole board isn't obliged to let him go in 2077 and if society in five decades is anything like society today they are unlikely to do so.

 

[Aaronf]

From the very little information we have, a psychotic illness seems unlikely; he seems to be clear of what he did and pleased that he did it. I'm satisfied with the sentence, a whole life tariff would have been good but I don't think laws should be changed to allow it. The parole board isn't obliged to let him go in 2077 and if society in five decades is anything like society today they are unlikely to do so.

Exactly, I think the nature v nurture debate or sane v mad could be debated for ever. The other option is just pure evil.

 

[trashpony]

School Prevent referrals rise - but fewer get support

Schools are increasingly referring children to the government’s anti-terrorism programme, but fewer than one in ten got support through the Prevent scheme

schoolsweek.co.uk

This is scary stuff.
“In the year to April 2024, two in five school referrals were found to involve a vulnerable child, but one deemed not to be driven by a terrorist ideology.

That meant more than 1,000 cases from schools were classed as “vulnerability present but no ideology or CT [counter-terrorism] risk” – an increase of 140 per cent since before Covid.”

 

[tim]

I didn’t focus on his appearance, I mentioned it as well as his crimes. He looks fucking demonic in that mugshot. Today’s events make it clear he is fucking demonic.

I’m really not clear what the point of your post is other than just be an arsehole to me (or imply I’m racist? Was that it?)

My point was that his appearance has no relevance to his crimes. I'm not implying that you are racist, but it is quite clear that the fact that he is a young black man is being exploited by racist influencers to radicalise their followers and led to the attempted pogroms in the wake of the attack and continues to be exploited as a short visit to Twitter will show you.

 

[Boo Radley75]

R.I.P. those poor little girls. The details were horrific. I especially feel sorry for that poor teacher, hiding and sheltering one kid, while having to listen, powerless, to other little kids pleading for their lives, while that cunt repeatedly stabbed them.

 

[trashpony]

My point was that his appearance has no relevance to his crimes. I'm not implying that you are racist, but it is quite clear that the fact that he is a young black man is being exploited by racist influencers to radicalise their followers and led to the attempted pogroms in the wake of the attack and continues to be exploited as a short visit to Twitter will show you.

Which have got nothing to do with me or bear any relevance to what I posted. I wasn’t making a comment on his race but on his facial expression.

I’ll end this conversation with a victim statement from one of the survivors

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Re death penalty loons that come crawling out at these times; this guy was 17 when he committed his crimes, since 1933 the minimum age at which a crime can be committed that could attract the death penalty was 18. The last execution of anyone under 18 was in 1889.

 

[isvicthere?]

Procedural note here: if the death penalty were reintroduced, as many frothy-mouthed commentators would like, would the fact that this killer´s crimes were committed when he was 17 (i.e. legally a child) preclude him from having to be subjected to it? Of the countries which still practise the death penalty, only 8 (China, DRC, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and the USA) actually execute juveniles.

 

[LakieLady]

Is he actually going to prison or a psychiatric unit? I'm not sure prison is the right place for him but I haven't followed the court case too closely as I don't want to hear the details of what happened because I wouldn't be able to get it out of my mind. Has he been diagnosed with anything or been medicated? I'm thinking he must be a dangerous psychopath to stab small children.
Government need to be pumping more resources into mental health services. All the signs were there that he was dangerous, he should have at least been having intensive therapy sessions, medication or even sectioned.

BIB: According to the Guardian (link below), two years earlier, his parents had called the police asking for help 4 times in 6 months. In one instance, they found him carrying a knife while on a bus and they just took him home.

If parents desperate for help from the police in connection with a child who is then found carrying a knife in public can't get the police to take any sort of meaningful action, I think their judgment and/or processes need reviewing.

Guardian report

 

[Aaronf]

Wasn't that part of his plan? He was 9 days shy of being 18 so wouldn't surprise me if he did that deliberately also.

 

[BigMoaner]

Rehabilitate? Definitely. Throw away the key? Definitely.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

My point was that his appearance has no relevance to his crimes

As far as I know, other than a general obsession with murder/killing, we know next to nothing about his motivation, his plan for the ricin or what else he would have like to have done.

So sweeping generalisations about the relevance of his race, gender, politics or other motivating factors are purely guesswork from tedious online amateur sleuths. So yes, those seeking to weaponise race are at it. But similarly those discounting anything at this point are also guessing/making poltical intreventions.

Let's wait for some facts and evidence eh...

 

[ska invita]

Was hust reading this; Express readers debate on whether the death penalty should be brought back

Not surprised it has appeared,

Of course its appeared - you're reading the Express! Its the kind of thing they would debate in bed after sex on a Sunday morning (and conclude Yes)

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Rehabilitate? Definitely. Throw away the key? Definitely.

I wouldn't make any long term plans for the former. He'll either off himself or be offed long before his 52 years are up.

 

[JimW]

Procedural note here: if the death penalty were reintroduced, as many frothy-mouthed commentators would like, would the fact that this killer´s crimes were committed when he was 17 (i.e. legally a child) preclude him from having to be subjected to it? Of the countries which still practise the death penalty, only 8 (China, DRC, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and the USA) actually execute juveniles.

China doesn't officially any more as far as I know; there was a case in Handan where some teens murdered a classmate and many wanted the death penalty but the boys got life instead: 13-year-old sentenced to life imprisonment for murder of classmate in China’s Handan - Global Times

 

[Aaronf]

Of course its appeared - you're reading the Express! Its the kind of thing they would debate in bed after sex on a Sunday morning (and conclude Yes)

I did see it in other places and articles, I just happened to link the 1st one.

 

[ska invita]

I did see it in other places and articles, I just happened to link the 1st one.

Daily Mail perhaps? The Sun? Telegraph? These people are psychopaths and take delight in stirring up blood lust revenge

 

[Aaronf]

Daily Mail perhaps? The Sun? Telegraph? These people are psychopaths and take delight in stirring up blood lust revenge

Yes all of those and GB News. Are there any decent news groups left?

 

[LakieLady]

From the very little information we have, a psychotic illness seems unlikely; he seems to be clear of what he did and pleased that he did it. I'm satisfied with the sentence, a whole life tariff would have been good but I don't think laws should be changed to allow it. The parole board isn't obliged to let him go in 2077 and if society in five decades is anything like society today they are unlikely to do so.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his mental health deteriorated while in prison, to the point where he would only ever be released to a psych institution.

I doubt if he'll be allowed to mix with other prisoners, one of them would soon take him out.

 

[ska invita]

Yes all of those and GB News. Are there any decent news groups left?

I wouldnt call any of those news groups

 

[LakieLady]

Of course its appeared - you're reading the Express! Its the kind of thing they would debate in bed after sex on a Sunday morning (and conclude Yes)

Express readers would probably discuss it before sex, to get themselves nicely aroused.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes all of those and GB News. Are there any decent news groups left?

uk p&p