leanderman
Street Party: July 2
It's grim at times, I admit.
Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...
- Thread starter TopCat
- Start date
It's grim at times, I admit.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The IPCC was first out the gate with the suggestion that duggan had fired.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Morning Star
August 5, 2011 Friday
IPCC asks for shooting witnesses
BYLINE: Rory MacKinnon
SECTION: BRITAIN
LENGTH: 214 words
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said it was launching an inquiry into the killing, which took place at around 6.15pm on Tottenham Hale's Ferry Lane Bridge on Wednesday - reportedly the site of a police surveillance operation. An IPCC spokesman confirmed that an adult male was fatally shot and a firearm was also recovered.
He did not say who shot first. An officer had also been taken to hospital and discharged, but the extent of their injuries was not known, he added. Neither the Metropolitan Police nor the IPCC have released the victim's name, but locals identified him as 29-year-old Mark Duggan, a father of four. Local resident Jay Crowned described Mr Duggan as "a good daddy" and loved by the community. "He's not a troublemaker but he's been down since his friend was stabbed in Mile End in around April this year. "His friend was like a brother and he lost him brutally, since then he's been really down. "He's never had trouble with the police before," Ms Crowned said. Mr Duggan's partner Simone Wilson said she was shocked to hear he may have been carrying a gun. "Maybe he needed it for protection because he was worried," she told reporters. "It is such a shock. They say he shot at police first but I just can't believe it." rorym@peoples-press.com
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
ah right- I was talking in the context of newspaper reportage, not IPCC. No excuse for why I thought it was the Sun rather than the Tgraph though!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The Express
August 6, 2011 Saturday
U.K. 1st Edition
Gangster in a cab killed by police in gunfight on street
BYLINE: By John Twomey
SECTION: NEWS; 34
LENGTH: 220 words
A SUSPECTED gangster shot in a gunfight with police was being driven in a minicab, it emerged yesterday.
Mark Duggan opened fire as officers cornered the cab in a busy street - and one police marksman was saved by his radio as the 29-year-old shot at him at close range.
As he fell, a fellow firearms officer fired two shots from his Heckler & Koch MP5 rifle. It is understood Duggan was hit in the head and died instantly.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission was trying to piece together exactly what happened during the incident in Tottenham, north London, at 6.15pm on Thursday.
Duggan, who had never been to prison, was being followed by detectives from Scotland Yard's Operation Trident squad, which targets serious crime in London's black community.
His girlfriend Semone Wilson, 29, said: "Mark was in a cab on his way to mine and on his own. I spoke to him at about 5pm. He asked me if I would cook dinner and I said yes.
"He said he spotted a police car following him. At about 6pm, he sent out a message on his Blackberry sayin g 'the Feds [underworld slang for police] are following me', and that's it, that's the last time anyone heard from him."
An IPCC spokesman said: "A nonpolice issue handgun was recovered at the scene. An officer's radio which appears to have a bullet lodged in it was also recovered."
likesfish
You can't park here sir
i wonder if the police spokesman had actually been at the scene or was told by somebody involved with the shooting or just got a report one wounded cop one dead person and asumed thats what happened.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
The Independent Police Complaints Commission was trying to piece together exactly what happened during the incident in Tottenham, north London, at 6.15pm on Thursday.
They didnt actually appear to have all the facts and just assumed thats what had happened. Assumation makes an arse out of you amd me
They didnt actually appear to have all the facts and just assumed thats what had happened. Assumation makes an arse out of you amd me
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There was very little activity the night of the shooting - it was the next day (the 5th) that the smear operation kicked into gear - publicly at least. The telegraph had been told by the IPCC on the 4th that Duggan had shot and they ran with that that same day - two hours after the shooting.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that's 'assumption' i think you'll find.Assumation makes an arse out of you amd me
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No need. You can write up the notes later.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
We can all help you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he'll need that help
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
urg, just realized I typed 'next time' without doubting for a minute that it will.
anyway, less on my failures, more on the case.
anyway, less on my failures, more on the case.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes: let's move on.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Has people seen this yet? News to me.
"The Mark Duggan photograph used by most of the tabloid newspapers – which supposedly shows him as a hard-faced gangster – was actually cropped from a photograph taken of him mourning his dead daughter."
Makes you wonder if there's anything iffy about other photos of him that the MSM have published
"The Mark Duggan photograph used by most of the tabloid newspapers – which supposedly shows him as a hard-faced gangster – was actually cropped from a photograph taken of him mourning his dead daughter."
Makes you wonder if there's anything iffy about other photos of him that the MSM have published
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the last three pages were the discussion of that
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Oops. Apols. Only checked the current page (51)
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Makes me wonder if that other pic of Mark Duggan either side of two fellers who had both allegedly been done for murder was cropped as well. Who else was in the photo? Could have just been a family event?
Fairly certain I've read a different version of this Blackberry message, something like "Trident have jammed me."
Unless there were several Blackberry messages.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I'm pretty sure there are pics of me with a few Jamaican mates who used to be regarded as thugs and gangsters.I grew up with them, they are good boys now. The pics could paint a picture though.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, there are definitely two versions kicking about. Be interested to see the actual records, rather than relying on what the police say the records are.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Quite possibly.
It's not allegedly though. They are serving life for murder and attempted murder.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
OK, cheers, fair enough. I couldn't recall the exact details.
Anyway I think there are two issues here:
a) Was background information about Duggan made available to the jury and, if so, did it sway their decision ? They would presumably have read news reports from 2011 onwards, detailing his underworld links, did this affect their decision as to whether he was lawfully killed?
Personally I don't find the fact of his having not been convicted of any violent crimes very significant; he might have just been good at it/lucky. Brings to mind one of a noted North London crime family who was done for tax in the end, despite being supposedly responsible for numerous murders - he was apparently very good at not getting caught/lucky/no-one would testify against him
BUT
b) Even if Duggan were proved to be a violent criminal, that wouldn't make his being shot dead whilst unarmed OK...we're not living in Brazil FFS
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
It seems to me that the general public accept the police version of this incident, or, if not, accept the jury's decision, on the basis that even if he didn't have the gun in his hand then he had one in his possession and was a violent crim so good riddance. The broader issue of whether we want to live in a society where our public servants shoot people dead when they are not presenting a threat...
Also - and it's sad to say - it's only by examining the case and its contradictory evidence in depth (as people have been doing on this thread) that alternative versions of what happened may come to light...the general public won't have the time, patience or interest in doing so. (I personally have only been following the story with such interest because of this thread, and because I've had some time off work to do so. If it wasn't for this, I would most likely have fallen into the "well he had a gun and he was a gangster so what is the problem" line of thought)
I have felt some of the theorizing on this thread has veered into conspiracy talk, it's only when you examine the whole thing in detail that facts like the anonymous call claiming Duggan had been set up emerge. And details like that won't - I guess - have appeared in the Daily Mail
Does anyone have any more info on that anonymous call BTW? If it hadn't been for that, I would bhave thought it likely that the reason for the police pursuit of Duggan that day was because they had been tapping his phone, and had heard him discussing - for example - a forthcoming 'hit' (SOCA personnel gave evidence at the inquest IIRC).
Also - and it's sad to say - it's only by examining the case and its contradictory evidence in depth (as people have been doing on this thread) that alternative versions of what happened may come to light...the general public won't have the time, patience or interest in doing so. (I personally have only been following the story with such interest because of this thread, and because I've had some time off work to do so. If it wasn't for this, I would most likely have fallen into the "well he had a gun and he was a gangster so what is the problem" line of thought)
I have felt some of the theorizing on this thread has veered into conspiracy talk, it's only when you examine the whole thing in detail that facts like the anonymous call claiming Duggan had been set up emerge. And details like that won't - I guess - have appeared in the Daily Mail
Does anyone have any more info on that anonymous call BTW? If it hadn't been for that, I would bhave thought it likely that the reason for the police pursuit of Duggan that day was because they had been tapping his phone, and had heard him discussing - for example - a forthcoming 'hit' (SOCA personnel gave evidence at the inquest IIRC).
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I thought I remembered it being taken somewhere - but now I can find only the Fail - reusing it here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...les-lawfully-shot-dead-urges-no-violence.html - with no provenance mentioned
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Anyone making that editorial choice is undoubtedly an arse, but will also be working to their paper's editorial line, which is invariably right-wing, reactionary, and demonising of minorities, especially if they happen to be black, male and working class.
He sees it. A cub on their first fortnight on a local can see it.
Still, "there are none so blind, as those who will not see", as the old saw goes...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Or perhaps he's no longer a journo, but rather (hawk, spit!) a manager.
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