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Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

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existentialist said:
They sort of did. I was quite shocked at the way, for some people, the deaths of the horses seemed to overshadow the deaths of the people.

I think we have to be cautious about writing this kind of concern for animals off as "nonsense", though - there are all kinds of reasons why we might have an emotional reaction on a different scale where animals are concerned - I remember the Hyde Park bombing, and I think one of the reasons the death of the horses was so significant was that it was so unusual (in peacetime civilian life, anyway).

Even without going near the animal rights end of the argument, we (humans) like animals, and it is bound to be upsetting to quite a few when an animal dies in this way. Some of those might even feel quite confused and uncomfortable with having those feelings when so many people died, so maybe the #jesuis... stuff is just a way of finding some comfort and solidarity.

I'm obviously in a good mood today.
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Not this time. ACAB.
 
That was predictable, I wondered how long it would take before I saw an article from someone in the US basically saying it's Europe's fault for having such strict gun laws (even though France doesn't).
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
That was predictable, I wondered how long it would take before I saw an article from someone in the US basically saying it's Europe's fault for having such strict gun laws (even though France doesn't).
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I watched Trumps rant with my jaw hanging open,how is it possible for one human being to be so stupid.
 
Jimmy Turr said:
I've noticed his anti-Islam stance, but nothing that can be construed as racist. If he's racist, why hasn't he been banned?
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I am also anti-Islam, I think that it is religion of the dark ages. It supports a patriarchal society, where women are very much second class citizens. It also comes with fascinating little add-ons, such as Sharia law (God help you should you have the effrontery to be gay, or fancy a bit of a fling with next door's husband), arranged/forced marriage, and female genital mutilation.

Islam is 700 years away from the present day. The punishments meted out under Sharia law are beyond barbaric, they have no place in any society which aspires to be regarded as civilised. It is control by terror, and I am certain, drives the acts of deluded individuals like the Paris attackers. After all, when the are perfectly happy to stone one of their own to death for adultery, shooting non-believers in a bistro is positively benign.

If Muslims choose to live in such a society, that is fine, but when people like IS try to enforce this on the rest of us, they must be resisted to the utmost extent.
 
The other day I sold a Muslim a national lottery ticket after they imposed Sharia law on me. One of those two things actually happened.

'Islam' and 'Christianity' and 'Secularism' are not monolithic ideologies practiced by monolithic entities.
 
existentialist said:
They sort of did. I was quite shocked at the way, for some people, the deaths of the horses seemed to overshadow the deaths of the people.

I think we have to be cautious about writing this kind of concern for animals off as "nonsense", though - there are all kinds of reasons why we might have an emotional reaction on a different scale where animals are concerned - I remember the Hyde Park bombing, and I think one of the reasons the death of the horses was so significant was that it was so unusual (in peacetime civilian life, anyway).

Even without going near the animal rights end of the argument, we (humans) like animals, and it is bound to be upsetting to quite a few when an animal dies in this way. Some of those might even feel quite confused and uncomfortable with having those feelings when so many people died, so maybe the #jesuis... stuff is just a way of finding some comfort and solidarity.

I'm obviously in a good mood today.
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I saw the forensic evidence of those bombings, including detailed pictures of the injuries. It was at a clinical meeting at the Queen Elizabeth Military Hospital at Woolwich, an audience of doctors and nurses. When the lights went up, there were quite a number of pale faces, this in an audience that routinely dealt with injury and death.
 
Citizen66 said:
Pretty well if they pickpocketed the weapon.
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Yes, that was my point really but I under telegraphed it. There was an American photographer discussing the security of his gear for a forthcoming European trip who said that in the US he was always safe because he carried his gun when out photographing, to which the response from an Italian was that the pickpockets in Rome were very good and they would nick that first ! :)
 
Sasaferrato said:
I am also anti-Islam, I think that it is religion of the dark ages. It supports a patriarchal society, where women are very much second class citizens. It also comes with fascinating little add-ons, such as Sharia law (God help you should you have the effrontery to be gay, or fancy a bit of a fling with next door's husband), arranged/forced marriage, and female genital mutilation.

Islam is 700 years away from the present day. The punishments meted out under Sharia law are beyond barbaric, they have no place in any society which aspires to be regarded as civilised. It is control by terror, and I am certain, drives the acts of deluded individuals like the Paris attackers. After all, when the are perfectly happy to stone one of their own to death for adultery, shooting non-believers in a bistro is positively benign.

If Muslims choose to live in such a society, that is fine, but when people like IS try to enforce this on the rest of us, they must be resisted to the utmost extent.
Click to expand...
i don't think you know anything about the dark ages.
 
Sasaferrato said:
I am also anti-Islam, I think that it is religion of the dark ages. It supports a patriarchal society, where women are very much second class citizens. It also comes with fascinating little add-ons, such as Sharia law (God help you should you have the effrontery to be gay, or fancy a bit of a fling with next door's husband), arranged/forced marriage, and female genital mutilation.

Islam is 700 years away from the present day. The punishments meted out under Sharia law are beyond barbaric, they have no place in any society which aspires to be regarded as civilised. It is control by terror, and I am certain, drives the acts of deluded individuals like the Paris attackers. After all, when the are perfectly happy to stone one of their own to death for adultery, shooting non-believers in a bistro is positively benign.

If Muslims choose to live in such a society, that is fine, but when people like IS try to enforce this on the rest of us, they must be resisted to the utmost extent.
Click to expand...
got this about a conference, which i think sounds very interesting


Dear Colleagues,




The theme of The Islamic Manuscript Association’s Eleventh Islamic Manuscript Conference is 'Sufism and Islamic Manuscript Culture’; it will be hosted by the University of Cambridge at Magdalene College on 13–15 September 2016 and is open to both members and non-members of the Association. The Call for Papers ends a week today on Monday, 23 November 2015 – please circulate this call to colleagues and students.




With many thanks,




Armin




----------




CALL FOR PAPERS | THE ISLAMIC MANUSCRIPT ASSOCIATION


SUFISM AND ISLAMIC MANUSCRIPT CULTURE | THE ELEVENTH ISLAMIC MANUSCRIPT CONFERENCE




Hosted by the University of Cambridge, UK, 13–15 September 2016




***Call for Papers Deadline: 23 November 2015***




Sufis have written litanies, panegyrics, didactic works in verse and prose, hagiographies, discourses, exegetical works, and metaphysical treatises made into manuscripts both humble and lavish. Sufi lodges have housed libraries and manuscript ateliers, and Sufi networks have disseminated manuscripts across the Muslim World. This conference seeks to present current international research trends on the relationship between Sufism and Islamic manuscript culture and generate discussion and study in this field. Possible topics for papers include but are not limited to:


  • Apotropaic uses of Sufi and non-Sufi manuscripts by Sufis
  • The arts of the book and Sufi artists and patrons
  • Bibliophilia and bibliophobia in Sufism
  • Cataloguing manuscripts on Sufism
  • Collection care programmes for collections of Sufi manuscripts
  • Conservation treatments on Sufi manuscripts
  • Diagrams and illustrations in manuscripts on Sufism
  • Digital humanities and the study of manuscripts on Sufism
  • The effects of recent conflicts in the Muslim World on collections of Sufi manuscripts
  • The history of Sufi libraries
  • Paratexts in manuscripts on Sufism
  • Preparing printed and digital editions of manuscripts on Sufism
  • The production of manuscripts by Sufi lodge ateliers
  • Publication programmes or series of editions or facsimiles of manuscripts on Sufism
  • Dissemination of texts and manuscripts through Sufi networks
  • The use of manuscripts in Sufi rituals

OTHER TOPICS


The Eleventh Islamic Manuscript Conference is also open to submissions on Islamic manuscripts unrelated to the main theme.




SUBMISSIONS


This call for papers is open to members and non-members of the Association. The languages of the Conference will be Arabic and English, and submissions will be accepted in both languages. The duration of each conference paper will be 20 minutes, followed by ten minutes of questions and answers. The Association will pay for round-trip economy-class travel to Cambridge, accommodation, and meals for individuals whose papers are accepted. All abstracts will be peer-reviewed.




The deadline for submission of abstracts is 10.00 GMT on Monday, 23 November 2015. For further guidance and to download an abstract cover sheet, see our website.




MORE INFORMATION


The Islamic Manuscript Association is an international non-profit organisation dedicated to protecting Islamic manuscript collections and supporting those who work with them. Our conferences have been held at the University of Cambridge every summer since 2005 and themes have included topics as diverse as ‘Manuscripts and Conflict’ (2014), ‘The Science of Manuscripts’ (2012), 'Central Asian Islamic Manuscripts’ (2010), ‘West African Islamic Manuscripts’ (2008), and 'Conservation, Cataloguing, Accessibility, Copyright and Digitisation’ (2005).




For the call for papers in full, see our website: The Islamic Manuscript Association




SPONSORS


We gratefully acknowledge the support of the Thesaurus Islamicus Foundation and the HRH Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Centre of Islamic Studies at the University of Cambridge.
 
Sasaferrato said:
I am also anti-Islam, I think that it is religion of the dark ages. It supports a patriarchal society, where women are very much second class citizens. It also comes with fascinating little add-ons, such as Sharia law (God help you should you have the effrontery to be gay, or fancy a bit of a fling with next door's husband), arranged/forced marriage, and female genital mutilation.
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Aren't these things more cultural practices as opposed to Sharia? Many of them predate Islam don't they?
 
There is disliking Islam for lots of reasons.
Which doesn't mean you can shit on individual Muslims.
Doctor Carrot said:
Aren't these things more cultural practices as opposed to Sharia? Many of them predate Islam don't they?
Click to expand...

Just as Christianity co opted Easter and Christmas it seems Islam took on some cultural practices or the culture found an excuse to justify their actions in islam.
 
Pickman's model

I am aware of the wonderful things that Islam has done in the past, and had Islam continued to develop in that way, it would be a lot different today. Islamic art and literature are of high standard, or were one may say. The religion seems to be going backwards, becoming more hard line in the face of the modern world. I strongly suspect that the diatribes against Western culture are driven by fear. When people see what the rest of the world has to offer, Islam and Sharia is a poor substitute.

As far as I am aware, no other mainstream religion advocates death for anyone leaving it, and this is not in the abstract, this is happening today. I have no doubt that the initial teachings of Mohammed have to an extent been altered by his brutal successors, frightened that their young people will leave, thereby lessening their grip on society.

Islam is as much about command and control as it is the worship of Allah. The excuse given by the Sunni and Shia, when breaking the prohibition of the Koran on killing other Muslims, is that the Sunni/Shia are not 'proper' Muslims, therefore killing them doesn't count.

Give Islam a few more decades/centuries and it will be where Christianity is today. I fully accept that the path of Christianity to where it is today has been bloody, but Christianity has 'grown up', something that Islam is still in the process of doing. Christianity went through its phase of command and control perversion, but it passed.
 
Sasaferrato said:
Pickman's model

I am aware of the wonderful things that Islam has done in the past, and had Islam continued to develop in that way, it would be a lot different today. Islamic art and literature are of high standard, or were one may say. The religion seems to be going backwards, becoming more hard line in the face of the modern world. I strongly suspect that the diatribes against Western culture are driven by fear. When people see what the rest of the world has to offer, Islam and Sharia is a poor substitute.

As far as I am aware, no other mainstream religion advocates death for anyone leaving it, and this is not in the abstract, this is happening today. I have no doubt that the initial teachings of Mohammed have to an extent been altered by his brutal successors, frightened that their young people will leave, thereby lessening their grip on society.

Islam is as much about command and control as it is the worship of Allah. The excuse given by the Sunni and Shia, when breaking the prohibition of the Koran on killing other Muslims, is that the Sunni/Shia are not 'proper' Muslims, therefore killing them doesn't count.

Give Islam a few more decades/centuries and it will be where Christianity is today. I fully accept that the path of Christianity to where it is today has been bloody, but Christianity has 'grown up', something that Islam is still in the process of doing. Christianity went through its phase of command and control perversion, but it passed.
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i don't accept the claim that christianity has grown up.
 
dylanredefined said:
There is disliking Islam for lots of reasons.
Which doesn't mean you can shit on individual Muslims.


Just as Christianity co opted Easter and Christmas it seems Islam took on some cultural practices or the culture found an excuse to justify their actions in islam.
Click to expand...

I don't shit on anybody, Muslim or not. I take individual people as I find them. Just as I like some people, some people like me, I don't expect everybody to like me, just as I don't necessarily like some everyone.

A few years back I went to a great deal off trouble to get a friend into my Masonic Lodge. It was quite a traumatic time, but I got there in the end. The problem was with some of the older members (and I mean older, the average age of the lodge is over 60.), who didn't think that a Muslim would fit in with the Lodge. He did, and is Senior Warden this year, he'll be in the chair next year. :cool:
 
Has one of those american rampage gunmen ever been stopped by an ordinary citizen with a gun?
 
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