The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Does anyone fancy a Qatar owned Man Utd doing the treble?
Manchester City 22/23
- Thread starter twistedAM
- Start date
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Maybe it's because you all come on a City thread to talk about a wider problem instead of doing what somebody suggested the other day and starting a thread to discuss those wider issues.
It's naive to talk about open secrets, whether about footballers' wages or anything else, on the basis of malicious reporting, designed to cause reputational damage and be spread through online tittle-tattle.
Rather than deny City's contribution to the spiral, I merely highlighted the fact that it was set in motion long before City became big spenders.
I don't know why people are so animated by the idea of a succesful Arab. Not alone in the Middle East, City's owner is one of the world's top investors, and has made a go of almost everything he's been involved in. That's success whichever way you look at it and is why western governments, and others, fete him and his associates.
Nobody else on here seems to come under pressure to drop their interest in one or another of the top clubs on the basis of class politics. Are you playing the nice capitalist and nasty capitalist game?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
And City's recruitment and transfer policy is probably the best in the EPL tbh .
club with unlimited money in being able to get good people shocker
it's a good point and another obvious distinction (to most people at least) to what has happened at United, say - Old Trafford is falling apart and Glazers have invested bugger all in the wider club. instead we just get big-name signings piled on to the club's growing debt to paper over the cracks.
I'm really not that arsed about what has happened - it's not really the City I cared about, the same way it's increasingly not Man United any more, and not football as I knew it etc etc - but it does annoy me when City/Newcastle fans try and deny the situation and start with the mental gymnastics. your owners are terrible; they're incredibly rich; they've spent loads of money - it is what it is, just own it.
it's a good point and another obvious distinction (to most people at least) to what has happened at United, say - Old Trafford is falling apart and Glazers have invested bugger all in the wider club. instead we just get big-name signings piled on to the club's growing debt to paper over the cracks.
I'm really not that arsed about what has happened - it's not really the City I cared about, the same way it's increasingly not Man United any more, and not football as I knew it etc etc - but it does annoy me when City/Newcastle fans try and deny the situation and start with the mental gymnastics. your owners are terrible; they're incredibly rich; they've spent loads of money - it is what it is, just own it.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I agree with this but I think the flipside is that all this stuff tends to reduce any criticism to the pointless 'footy bantz' sort of level. A lot of it is just 'yeah but your owners are bad so ner' sort of stuff from people who don't give a shit what these governments get up to otherwise and anything a bit sharper gets lost amongst all of that pointless crap. Part of how effective it is I suppose.
and I get that it's hard. I know a Newcastle fan who is a very socially aware, left-wing guy, often quite vocal about politics etc on social media... but he has been 100% positive about the owners and 'the new Newcastle' despite being well aware of the problems. football is so tribal and means so much to people that it can be easy to turn a blind eye, unfortunately.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Funny how many Manyoo fans have 'lost interest' over the past decade. The 'interest' that so many of them discovered in the 1993-2014 period or thereabouts. None of these are 'bothered about City', however...
Wasn't it only a few months ago that you were crowing on here about United being the form team of the moment, and in line for a quadruple?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
It's not just the cash though is it ? Chelsea and Man Utd have the cash but a lot of their expensive signings haven't been value.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
It's for exactly the same reason that the overwhelming majority of fans of your club would do it.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Exactly. The average football fan couldn't give a flying toss about what happens in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world.
Like most people they're only interested in what benefits them personally.
well, two things.
they have and they haven't got the cash. United is saddled with debt. the owners just take money out. not remotely the same.
and that was my whole point about no investment in the wider club - expensive signings is only one thing, there is the wider structure of the club, people, facilities etc.
they have and they haven't got the cash. United is saddled with debt. the owners just take money out. not remotely the same.
and that was my whole point about no investment in the wider club - expensive signings is only one thing, there is the wider structure of the club, people, facilities etc.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I take your point about the way the Glaziers have run the club and tbh I can't understand how in reality a club that is in so much debt hasn't faced any investigation whilst Championship clubs have been sanctioned for FFP.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
And yet, as pointed out somewhere above, even the minority of United fans who are vocally opposed to the Glazers simultaneously revere the old-guard hierarchy who backed the Glazers' buy-out and defended it every step of the way.
Complacency is your main problem, however. United and other clubs more or less guaranteed constant top four/six didn't see new challengers coming, leaving them on the backfoot, with only media smears and bureaucratic obstruction to fall back on. Given such complacency, there is no guarantee that had United continued with previous owners, or somebody other than the Glazers, there would not have been the same neglect of infrastructure you say has happened, and the same, seemingly ill-planned 'Wow kids, look at who we've signed now!' approach.
eh? FFP is about not spending more than you earn. not an issue for United.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
That was the original idea of FFP. Google what Platini had to say about how the European clubs with clout pressured UEFA into making their FFP mainly about restricting new investment.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
It was initially sold as sustainability, a sensible way of financially running a club.
editor
hiraethified
It would disgust me as much as it did to witness a state owned Man City win the treble.
editor
hiraethified
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Exactly that. I could respect anyone who is a longstanding City fan who felt conflicted when Abu Dhabi took over. Something like 'yeah, it feels wrong, it's a gruesome regime and it's obvious why they are buying a team but sheesh, it's just hard to thrown off your loyalties'. It's okay to have that conflict and if you want to carry on supporting City, that's your call. But building elaborate justifications, attacking journalists and all the rest... less so.
I'm still a United fan, but have no problem saying the management and ownership of the club has been deeply problematic going back to Louis Edwards. For me the breaking point was the Glazers and I've not been to the ground since they took over. So, I've been stuck at being a fan of the team, but not a supporter of the 'club' since 2005. But if United end up as a Qatari project, fuck the whole lot of 'em.
editor
hiraethified
Not all. Some decided to put their money where their mouth is and went on to form FC Utd of Manchester.
Home | FC United of Manchester
FC United exists to provide affordable, supporter-owned, community-focused football for supporters who are tired of modern football's constant pursuit of further riches at the expense the fans.
fc-utd.co.uk
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Corbyn's plans to adopt a Bundesliga type plan for football clubs would have been a step forward but predictably it was met with this sort of media response
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
A tiny minority of the fan base did, but some of those known to me used to still watch, or at least follow, both clubs, and I don't think that was particularly unusual.Not all. Some decided to put their money where their mouth is and went on to form FC Utd of Manchester.
Home | FC United of Manchester
FC United exists to provide affordable, supporter-owned, community-focused football for supporters who are tired of modern football's constant pursuit of further riches at the expense the fans.
I haven't noticed FCU for a few years now, but the last I heard there were embroiled in infighting, over the money I seem to recall.
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RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I didn't say their attendances had fallen, I said you seem to meet, or hear plenty saying, that they've lost interest in the club. But such people are probably not regular match-going fans.
I live in a different city entirely now, and I sometimes hear such talk here, but these people have hardly been to Manchester, let alone OT.
And of those that do stop going, there'll always be plenty, from all over the country and beyond, to take up the slack, at least as long as a more drastic decline can be staved off. They've been marketed well for decades.
Anyway, here's the Editor, who has absolutely honestly no axe to grind for Manyoo, jumping in to grind an axe for United on the City thread.
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tommers
Fuck it, it's fine.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Supporting fan owned clubs - as I do - isn't going to solve shitty corporate football and it's not for everyone. But it is a way of watching football and keeping your principles (roughly) in tact.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Did FCU resolve the issues that were tearing the club apart a few seasons ago? They no longer seem to attract much media interest. I didn't follow it in detail, but I remember reports of boardroom infighting, questions over cash, anger-fuelled general meetings (or whatever they call them) and, unless I imagined it, a pitch invasion in protest at the ownership.
I'm genuinely interested in this minority phenomenon of requiring owners of what are, at all levels, capitalist enterprises to conform to progressive principles. Do some only go to see bands, for example, that do likewise? I can't think of many socialist or anarcho-syndicalist football clubs, but are there any communist ten-pin bowling places, say? Do they refuse any invitation to eat out unless it's at a co-operative cafe? Would they demand that Robert de Niro or Arnie S. convert to anarchism before they'd watch their films?
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Fan led schemes or fan led clubs are simply more democratic in my view than clubs in which the fan base is simply one of customer /client .
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I felt conflicted, I must admit, as having seen too many disappointing and downright incompetent owners at the club, I feared this lot would be similar for all their talk. They have proved my fears unfounded, and I'm ashamed of my initial misgivings.
When you say regime, do you mean AD, or the UAE which it is part of? Either way, City were purchased by Sheikh Mansour as an individual, under the umbrella of ADUG. For some time he has owned, I think, around 70% of shares, with the rest being owned by the US company Silverlake. What you call elaborate justifications are usually explanations of truths about the matter that you find inconvenient. However, no City fan (and no supporter of any other club for that matter) has to justify anything to anybody. As you say, old loyalties die hard, as you will see if United get bought by Qataris, so why should somebody be expected to justify something that will happen anyway whether you like it or not? Furthermore, people who demand as you do usually seem to forget that most people, again no matter who they support in football, do not share the principles that they love to loudly trumpet (these days mainly online it seems.)
Which journalists have been attacked btw? Were they badly injured?
