kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
45 minutes later:
Mail: a truly despicable article ("nothing 'natural' about Stephen Gately's death")
- Thread starter Badger Kitten
- Start date
45 minutes later:
john x
Well-Known Member
There is.
It's called incitement to racial hatred and Nick Griffin has been charged with it and at least one Islamic cleric has been convicted of it.
john x
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
As an actual example, a (bad) Asian character in Corrie a while back made a mildly racist (towards white people) remark. This outraged the following people with no sense of proportion:
- people who thought it meant that the scriptwriters were condoning anti white racism. (Presumably those people also think the Corrie scriptwriters also condone the murder of cheeky Manc lads with designer stubble by Scottish entrepreneurs with bulging eyes).
- people who thought it was racist to portray Asians in a bad light.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
I agree with your side 1 and side 2 points. As I said before I'm happy to see certain people offended on certain things and therefore should and do accept that people might offend me and they may well be within their rights to do so. And of course what we are doing here is exercising our own freedom of speech and encouraging those of a like mind to do similar.
I am also a little uncomfortable with the mob justice aspect. It always seems to be a lot easier to get big support for things I consider pernicious like locking up those boys who killed James Bulger for ever and ever or for hanging paedophiles, than causes I consider worthwhile. Biggest mob =/= right anymore than biggest army does. Which is why I'd say we need a decent code of conduct that people should adhere to whatever the size of their facebook group. Not easy, I'll agree.
This case has brought to my attention the PCC. I would like to see the PCC examined. I think we should be able to ask why it differs so much in character from Offcom. Why it is not independent and why it has so little power.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
- people who thought it was racist to portray Asians in a bad light.
That's a hard one that. Of course it isn't. But if every time an Asian is depicted on telly they are depicted in a bad light, in comparison to the depiction of white people then there is a problem. If this problem exists then you will get people objecting to single incidences of it, even though one swallow does not a summer make.
Reminds me of a sketch on something or other where black actors discussed their acting jobs, 10 bit parts in the bill, prisoner no. 3, murdered drug dealer, but nothing much in the way of accountant, florist etc.
newbie
undisambiguated
Up until a very few years ago broadcasting was a near monopoly and was set up and regulated as such, by the Broadcasting Complaints Commission and more recently by Ofcom & the BBC Trust. It's not even close to a monopoly any more, not since the internet. Which makes it somewhat more akin tot the paper based press... and leads to the question why the unduly centralised Ofcom isn't constituted more like the PCC. Why do we need a nanny at all?
john x
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying there is any real comparison other than playing the numbers game but the highest ever number of complaints to the BBC was over the Jerry Springer-The Opera show.
In that case however, the vast number of complaints did not represent a groundswell of genuine, general outrage, but a clearly orchestrated campaign by well-organised christian groups.
As the interweb becomes more important and people know how to play the 'critical mass' game, these 'huge numbers of complaints' will be devalued. How soon before someone creates a software that with one-click will 'seed' a complaint or opinion in all the right places?
Then we may even have to go out and protest in the streets again.
john x
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
That's a systemic rather than specific issue tho, only becomes apparent over time and even then you've got to weight it against the portrayl of all ethnicities playing bad characters and a ton of other stuff (it could simply be that there has been a run of shows where an Asian has been the bad guy, for example).
The 'roles offered' thing is a far better way of looking at it than scheduling, IMO, as it demonstrates the (lack of) range etc that writers and more specifically casting directors, are happy and comfortable with.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Why not get rid of laws? Why not get rid of the police?
Who says it's a nanny.
And: because we behave like spoilt little children soooo much of the time.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
There's been many a thread devoted to that particular subject...
Possibly because we're treated like children; saved from the worst consequences of our actions? Insulated from abrogating our responsibilities to someone else who 'knows better' what's good for us?
Having said that, I don't necessarily disagree with your comment about spoiled children either (and it applies across the political spectrum)...
gosub
~#
some very useful links within that article, worth reading in situé
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Are we? Or do we just need some rules and to not bleat on about having rules meaning we're being ''nannied''.
People behave badly regardless of age. And if you behave badly there should be consequences. Someone has to be responsible for those and as it can't really be your mum past about age 14 someone else has to take it on.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Bad editing, is where it comes into it. Should read ....issue, which only becomes apparent...
newbie
undisambiguated
well, I say it's a nanny 
the point being that you're asking for the press to be regulated in the manner of broadcasters... does that include the sort of 'balance' nanny requires of TV docs? Aspects of this thread certainly give the impression that the press should be regulated, to prevent people being offended.
Yet we voluntarily expose ourselves to the internet, which has no such Ofnet, no regulatory body, no Complaints Commission, nothing to prevent people being offensive, no requirement for balance or truth. Why is there an impulse towards regulation in one medium and not another?.
the point being that you're asking for the press to be regulated in the manner of broadcasters... does that include the sort of 'balance' nanny requires of TV docs? Aspects of this thread certainly give the impression that the press should be regulated, to prevent people being offended.
Yet we voluntarily expose ourselves to the internet, which has no such Ofnet, no regulatory body, no Complaints Commission, nothing to prevent people being offensive, no requirement for balance or truth. Why is there an impulse towards regulation in one medium and not another?.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
cf. all the threads about anarchism ever for my responses to this line of inquiry
The question really lies in 'whom do we make responsible'. At present we allow the state this role in pretty much every area of life to a greater or lesser degree. It's interesting you use the word rules and not laws too, but that's a whole other thread...
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
cf. all the threads about anarchism ever for my responses to this line of inquiry
The question really lies in 'whom do we make responsible'. At present we allow the state this role in pretty much every area of life to a greater or lesser degree. It's interesting you use the word rules and not laws too, but that's a whole other thread...
I'm not that interested.
Responsible for what? For making laws/rules? for behaving themselves? For taking the consequences when they misbehave?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
A mixture of all of those really - we expect the state to take up the consequences of substance abuse, for example. For the care of children in poor circumstance. It's who we make responsible for overseeing us, for telling us what we should and should not be doing...and then provide us with a comforting narrative when it all goes wrong.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Speak for yourself matey.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Well, when I say 'we' I mean 'the body politic' and it's being done in the context of quimmy's question...
Badger Kitten
oof
more news
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/21/stephen-gately-polydor-jan-moir
Polydor Records, the label representing Stephen Gately's band Boyzone, has filed an official complaint to the Press Complaints Commission about Jan Moir's controversial Daily Mail column about his death.
Moir's article, which was published on Friday, the day before Gately's funeral in Dublin, has so far attracted more than 25,000 complaints.
A spokeswoman for Polydor Records confirmed to MediaGuardian.co.uk that the label has submitted a complaint to the PCC, but would give no details as to the specific issues raised. "The PCC is now considering this new complaint," a commission spokesman confirmed.
It is understood the Polydor complaint is similar to those already received by the PCC and centres on issues such as accuracy and intrusion into grief, which relate to clauses one and five in the commission's code of practice.
Many staff at Polydor have worked with the Boyzone band members – Gately, Ronan Keating, Keith Duffy, Mikey Graham and Shane Lynch – for years.
"All of us at Polydor are shocked to hear the tragic news about Stephen," runs a statement on the homepage of the Polydor website. "Everyone who worked with him loved him. Our thoughts are with Andrew, Stephen's family and Keith, Mikey, Ronan and Shane at this terrible time."
No complaint has been received by the PCC from Gately's family or from the band or individual members. It is thought that options are still being considered but all parties have up to this point wanted to avoid getting involved in the media furore while grieving.
The PCC has not yet made a decision as to whether to investigate the complaints, the most the commission has ever received over a single article.
However, the PCC has already written to the Daily Mail for its response "to the more general complaints from the public before considering whether there are any issues under the code to pursue".
The PCC rarely investigates complaints not made by people directly involved in articles, unless they are complaints about accuracy. The regulator did last year investigate third-party complaints about press coverage of Alfie Patten after the Sun falsely reported that the 13-year-old had fathered a child, although it eventually dropped its inquiries.
In this case the PCC could launch an investigation to see if Moir's article violated parts of its code that deal with intrusion into grief, accuracy, discrimination and homophobia.
Moir, who has won a British Press Award, made a statement defending her column late on Friday, saying it was not her intention to offend, blaming a "heavily orchestrated internet campaign" for the furore and adding that it was "mischievous in the extreme to suggest that my article has homophobic and bigoted undertones".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/21/stephen-gately-polydor-jan-moir
Polydor Records, the label representing Stephen Gately's band Boyzone, has filed an official complaint to the Press Complaints Commission about Jan Moir's controversial Daily Mail column about his death.
Moir's article, which was published on Friday, the day before Gately's funeral in Dublin, has so far attracted more than 25,000 complaints.
A spokeswoman for Polydor Records confirmed to MediaGuardian.co.uk that the label has submitted a complaint to the PCC, but would give no details as to the specific issues raised. "The PCC is now considering this new complaint," a commission spokesman confirmed.
It is understood the Polydor complaint is similar to those already received by the PCC and centres on issues such as accuracy and intrusion into grief, which relate to clauses one and five in the commission's code of practice.
Many staff at Polydor have worked with the Boyzone band members – Gately, Ronan Keating, Keith Duffy, Mikey Graham and Shane Lynch – for years.
"All of us at Polydor are shocked to hear the tragic news about Stephen," runs a statement on the homepage of the Polydor website. "Everyone who worked with him loved him. Our thoughts are with Andrew, Stephen's family and Keith, Mikey, Ronan and Shane at this terrible time."
No complaint has been received by the PCC from Gately's family or from the band or individual members. It is thought that options are still being considered but all parties have up to this point wanted to avoid getting involved in the media furore while grieving.
The PCC has not yet made a decision as to whether to investigate the complaints, the most the commission has ever received over a single article.
However, the PCC has already written to the Daily Mail for its response "to the more general complaints from the public before considering whether there are any issues under the code to pursue".
The PCC rarely investigates complaints not made by people directly involved in articles, unless they are complaints about accuracy. The regulator did last year investigate third-party complaints about press coverage of Alfie Patten after the Sun falsely reported that the 13-year-old had fathered a child, although it eventually dropped its inquiries.
In this case the PCC could launch an investigation to see if Moir's article violated parts of its code that deal with intrusion into grief, accuracy, discrimination and homophobia.
Moir, who has won a British Press Award, made a statement defending her column late on Friday, saying it was not her intention to offend, blaming a "heavily orchestrated internet campaign" for the furore and adding that it was "mischievous in the extreme to suggest that my article has homophobic and bigoted undertones".
Your point?
I know.
Strumpet
gypsy girl
Years.
I can't keep up to speed on this and this may have been asked.
Does anyone know who the sub was on Thursday evening whilst everyone else was out on the lash?
Thought I'd drop him a hand written recorded delivery letter.
So far no answer from my one to Dacre -surprise.
^^^ it has been signed for
Does anyone know who the sub was on Thursday evening whilst everyone else was out on the lash?
Thought I'd drop him a hand written recorded delivery letter.
So far no answer from my one to Dacre -surprise.
^^^ it has been signed for
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Yeah but that's what I've been saying. This is just another example of lots of people getting involved, kicking up a fuss, but in the end the paper does nothing and the PCC does nothing. Positive results are really limited to people realising that they're going to have to look elsewhere.
And a good place to look to see the possible future is the States, where there's no PCC anyway and even less chance of actually stopping a news outlet from publishing something using the law, and where advertising is even more important. What you have there is large organised political groups sending around emails and threatening advertising boycotts, and far by the most successful of them are the "pro-family" ones; these groups are thoroughly infiltrated by party and corporate interests. The result is that advertising-sponsored news in the US is even *more* biased towards a conservative, pro-state viewpoint than it has been in the past.
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