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London Anarchist bookfair 2020

No I agree. I know about the split and about the supposed support for particular alleged terfs circa 2017-18, though I'm not involved and don't know about any other flashpoints. However the statements look like a way of moving on and getting some degree of mutual accommodation.
I really don’t think it’s about anything anyone actually did.

The vast majority of the ACG membership weren’t involved in that debacle. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know the ins and outs. It sounds messy, as these things often are. What I do know is that my comrades who were involved are decent and honourable people who will have acted in good faith with the best of intentions, and with sound politics behind what they were doing. You know some of them. They’re people with a long history of working class activism between them.

I’m not interested in interpersonal beef that people may have with my comrades. But whoever does could just be honest instead of making up grievances about politics that aren’t there.
 
I really don’t think it’s about anything anyone actually did.

The vast majority of the ACG membership weren’t involved in that debacle. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know the ins and outs. It sounds messy, as these things often are. What I do know is that my comrades who were involved are decent and honourable people who will have acted in good faith with the best of intentions, and with sound politics behind what they were doing. You know some of them. They’re people with a long history of working class activism between them.

I’m not interested in interpersonal beef that people may have with my comrades. But whoever does could just be honest instead of making up grievances about politics that aren’t there.
Yeah, I'm definitely not suggesting there's been any kind of ongoing offence given, just agreeing with Ska that this was all set in stone some years back. Fwiw, again from my limited reading of events, I have a lot of sympathy for the original bookfair collective and the way they were treated.
 
I don't want to overstate Full Stop Affinity's importance, but the Q was asked about the bus stops, so I posted that here - using actual sources and quotes that can be checked against the original.

For outsiders (and a particular newbie) reading this thread, this is how you do this.

What people have actually said and done should be the starting point for these discussions.
 
I don't want to overstate Full Stop Affinity's importance, but the Q was asked about the bus stops, so I posted that here - using actual sources and quotes that can be checked against the original.

For outsiders (and a particular newbie) reading this thread, this is how you do this.

What people have actually said and done should be the starting point for these discussions.
thanks for doing it...i still dont get how any fuss at all was made over a bit of graf on a bus stop
 
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thanks for doing it...i sitll dont get how any fuss at all was made over a big of graf on a bus stop
I can see why the YCL would, but I don't hold them in any regard anyway.

I have no issue with the bus stop looking like that. It's better than seeing adverts on it. I've seen some local stops with big wide screen tellies embedded and what must be the guts of a PC running it. They must be ripe for boosting.
 
Bookfair decisions have absolutely nothing to do with the AF.

But I'm gunna address some of the AF stuff upthread. Sorry about the rant, and though I hate to air shit openly, I think it needs to be stated so people can give their heads a wobble and reassess some of the bullshit they harbour.

Some folk seem to feel that we've spent the past 5 years stewing and have dedicated our lives to being upset about it. We have not. So a dozen folk felt unable to work in a space that would react severely to what we perceived as transphobic dogwhistling, it was a poorly worded statement, which unconsciously contained a lot of problematic elements which better informed people told them were problematic, they edited it out . If what people told me at a bunch of bookfairs since is right, those who left felt it was IDPOL liberalism, (IDPOL here not meaning Identity Politics in it's original framing but the right wing's appopriation of the term to me "identity focused, supremacists who use cross class anatgonism and dog piling to force their way"). I disagree with that assessment obviously. They wrote a unconsciously poorly worded statement and couldn't deal with the trans (and others) membership being rightly upset. They did edit the statement th, so it shows that some of the thoughts were taken onboard. I think it's still got problematic elements and there remains to this day a loose "we should work to heal the rift" manner which makes sense in one way but for those suffering transphobia remains a "what you want us to work with our bigots?" line and clearly people thing it's a thing. Thus that "BinACG", who is obviously someone in the milleu since they do indeed know some of the internal gossip. It isn't me tho, fuck I didn't even read it until I was forced to weeks later.

It's a shame [Redacted] is HEAVILY IMPLYING BUT NOT QUITE SAYING that I'm this shit account "outting them", their analysis of my writing patterns is clearly not CSI level. We spoke directly and he accepted it wasn't me and chose to delete comments they had put on twitter. Someone subsequently posted my personal details and called me a Transphobe, which, truly, I appreciate the irony off. If they had taken me up on my polite hellos the last four times we've bumped into each other instead of playing the silent game, they might know that this fantasy; that I or anyone else in the AF, care or harbour some deep resentment, is simply not true. You don't come up that often, we're busy folk and it's really not that important. This whole thing which they are basing their response off is one sided.

I have absolutely zero love for internet drama (... looks at thread... honestly! lol) and I hate having to air dirty laudry like this but I'm also not keen on people who know better chatting shit online and I suspect offline to anyone and everyone. You telling people that I'm some anonymous twitter account with an issue, puts people at threat. It's not just the doxing me it's also jacketing me which is a fucking problem. You need to pack that shit in comrade, it's not cool. you apologised and said you didn't know what OPSEC is, thats ok, maybe it's a generational thing idk, but you know what jacket is and it's a bit of a dick move mate.

But back to AF stuff. we don't think it was some super evil HOW DARE THEY, move to leave. There is nothing precious about these organisations, free associate with the ones that work for you and swap and change as you wish. Nobody cares. Fuck, we kept radio silence and never issued any statement to keep beefing to a minimal, those who knew the details knew them. No need to engaging in a pissing war, this despite the verbal we got on the grapevine, with literally dozens of people coming up to us at following bookfairs saying "I was told that you lot XYZ" mostly that we're liberals now, that we don't care about class, that we only care about being SJWs etc etc etc boring. No one cares mate.

If anything those dozen people leaving was a relief, shame to loose some comrades, but we were then able to push through some changes such as becoming an overtly intersectional organisation and focus more on some of the broader aspects of Anarchist Communist organising. I'm happy they are working in a space they feel more comfortable. The AF doesn't care, we certainly aint doing any shenanigans. The depth of interest is limited too "ah cool a growing anarchist org" and "oh they've taken up Platformism, atleast the two organisations are a bit more politically distinct".

Far as I can tell, gossiping about us, cussing us out to anyone and everyone, kind of lost steam a couple years back and everyone moved on.
So please, on a personal level here, for the love of fuck, move on.

Whatever imagined beef you think you have with me, that you think is leading some fantastical plot, that you think I stay up at night grinding my teeth over, influnecing the orgs I'm in to do my evil bidding, please for the love of all that is holy, stop projecting that on the 100 or so other people in the AF. No one cares, I'm sorry if no one has actually wrote you a letter or statement about it but here it is, we don't care, best of luck to you, thanks for the fish.

Certainly stop posting shit on open forums such as this and twitter to stoke fires and drama. You have the capacity to fucking message me and actually have a conversation, like next time we bump into each other, say hello. I really harbour no resentment, I disagree with some of your politcs, big woop, you gotta let this personal stuff go mate.

IDK, is all this coz the AF blocked you lot on Twitter? We did that coz shortly after the whole "Don't support the movement in Belarus, thats a fascist flag" bullshit thread, one of your admins was clearly drunk and posting random shit towards us. We simply had enough of polite silence and wishing to avoid drama, blocked you. We're busy folk and don't have time for random internet spats laden with bad faith and aggy.
 
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I can see why the YCL would, but I don't hold them in any regard anyway.

I have no issue with the bus stop looking like that. It's better than seeing adverts on it. I've seen some local stops with big wide screen tellies embedded and what must be the guts of a PC running it. They must be ripe for boosting.
Now that I know the issue was anti homeless architecture I understand the motivation. I hadn’t picked up on that detail before. Hostile architecture is cunt’s trick.
 
Literally didn’t happen.

Happy to hear it.

In that case you've got people across the country shit stirring by inventing things and then coming up to ask us about X and Y which they'd heard from [redacted] etc etc. It also doesn't help that some of your members post very similar things on their socials. Just saying. Like I've stood at tables and had person after person say stuff about what they'd heard from your peeps about the AF. Mostly that we are SJW,IDPOL Obsessed,Liberals, don't care about class etc etc

Truly tho, hope it's not true, nothing would bring me more joy in the world that a status of mutual respect and understanding. So far tho, it seems to be in one direction. You should have your guys message our guys, get it sorted out, cos if we don't think what you think we think and you don't think what we think you think, there is no reason to not get along eh?

Theme tune for Anarchism in the UK.
 
Happy to hear it.
Good. Maybe we can move forward.

I joined the ACG after the split and those involved in the split have been very circumspect and diplomatic about it. And, importantly, they are now a small minority of the organisation. The vast majority weren’t there, weren’t involved, and are sick fed up being tarred as transphobes because of this. The sooner the Matthew Hopkins-alike rumours and smears stop the better.

I’m glad that you’ve clarified you don’t think the ACG is transphobic. I’m happy to take your word that the cowardly and bizarre anonymous BinACG account is not you. You’ve rightly condemned it too. Thank you. And I’m sorry to hear someone posted your details and called you transphobic. That’s out of order.

This feels like a clearing of air. Give me a shout if you’re in Glasgow. We can get a pint and have a blether.
 
Bookfair decisions have absolutely nothing to do with the AF.

But I'm gunna address some of the AF stuff upthread. Sorry about the rant, and though I hate to air shit openly, I think it needs to be stated so people can give their heads a wobble and reassess some of the bullshit they harbour.

Some folk seem to feel that we've spent the past 5 years stewing and have dedicated our lives to being upset about it. We have not. So a dozen folk felt unable to work in a space that would react severely to what we perceived as transphobic dogwhistling, it was a poorly worded statement, which unconsciously contained a lot of problematic elements which better informed people told them were problematic, they edited it out . If what people told me at a bunch of bookfairs since is right, those who left felt it was IDPOL liberalism, (IDPOL here not meaning Identity Politics in it's original framing but the right wing's appopriation of the term to me "identity focused, supremacists who use cross class anatgonism and dog piling to force their way"). I disagree with that assessment obviously. They wrote a unconsciously poorly worded statement and couldn't deal with the trans (and others) membership being rightly upset. They did edit the statement th, so it shows that some of the thoughts were taken onboard. I think it's still got problematic elements and there remains to this day a loose "we should work to heal the rift" manner which makes sense in one way but for those suffering transphobia remains a "what you want us to work with our bigots?" line and clearly people thing it's a thing. Thus that "BinACG", who is obviously someone in the milleu since they do indeed know some of the internal gossip. It isn't me tho, fuck I didn't even read it until I was forced to weeks later.

It's a shame [Redacted] is HEAVILY IMPLYING BUT NOT QUITE SAYING that I'm this shit account "outting them", their analysis of my writing patterns is clearly not CSI level. We spoke directly and he accepted it wasn't me and chose to delete comments they had put on twitter. Someone subsequently posted my personal details and called me a Transphobe, which, truly, I appreciate the irony off. If they had taken me up on my polite hellos the last four times we've bumped into each other instead of playing the silent game, they might know that this fantasy; that I or anyone else in the AF, care or harbour some deep resentment, is simply not true. You don't come up that often, we're busy folk and it's really not that important. This whole thing which they are basing their response off is one sided.

I have absolutely zero love for internet drama (... looks at thread... honestly! lol) and I hate having to air dirty laudry like this but I'm also not keen on people who know better chatting shit online and I suspect offline to anyone and everyone. You telling people that I'm some anonymous twitter account with an issue, puts people at threat. It's not just the doxing me it's also jacketing me which is a fucking problem. You need to pack that shit in comrade, it's not cool. you apologised and said you didn't know what OPSEC is, thats ok, maybe it's a generational thing idk, but you know what jacket is and it's a bit of a dick move mate.

But back to AF stuff. we don't think it was some super evil HOW DARE THEY, move to leave. There is nothing precious about these organisations, free associate with the ones that work for you and swap and change as you wish. Nobody cares. Fuck, we kept radio silence and never issued any statement to keep beefing to a minimal, those who knew the details knew them. No need to engaging in a pissing war, this despite the verbal we got on the grapevine, with literally dozens of people coming up to us at following bookfairs saying "I was told that you lot XYZ" mostly that we're liberals now, that we don't care about class, that we only care about being SJWs etc etc etc boring. No one cares mate.

If anything those dozen people leaving was a relief, shame to loose some comrades, but we were then able to push through some changes such as becoming an overtly intersectional organisation and focus more on some of the broader aspects of Anarchist Communist organising. I'm happy they are working in a space they feel more comfortable. The AF doesn't care, we certainly aint doing any shenanigans. The depth of interest is limited too "ah cool a growing anarchist org" and "oh they've taken up Platformism, atleast the two organisations are a bit more politically distinct".

Far as I can tell, gossiping about us, cussing us out to anyone and everyone, kind of lost steam a couple years back and everyone moved on.
So please, on a personal level here, for the love of fuck, move on.

Whatever imagined beef you think you have with me, that you think is leading some fantastical plot, that you think I stay up at night grinding my teeth over, influnecing the orgs I'm in to do my evil bidding, please for the love of all that is holy, stop projecting that on the 100 or so other people in the AF. No one cares, I'm sorry if no one has actually wrote you a letter or statement about it but here it is, we don't care, best of luck to you, thanks for the fish.

Certainly stop posting shit on open forums such as this and twitter to stoke fires and drama. You have the capacity to fucking message me and actually have a conversation, like next time we bump into each other, say hello. I really harbour no resentment, I disagree with some of your politcs, big woop, you gotta let this personal stuff go mate.

IDK, is all this coz the AF blocked you lot on Twitter? We did that coz shortly after the whole "Don't support the movement in Belarus, thats a fascist flag" bullshit thread, one of your admins was clearly drunk and posting random shit towards us. We simply had enough of polite silence and wishing to avoid drama, blocked you. We're busy folk and don't have time for random internet spats laden with bad faith and aggy.
Still don't get why any of this means you couldn't have either answered a straight question or said you weren't in a position to, which was all that was required and is pretty basic for an event organising collective.
 
This thread :facepalm:

I’m interested in the ideas and praxis underlying anarchism but seeing factions have all this small-p politics with each other makes me want to stay a million miles from the people and groups involved. Who has the time or emotional bandwidth for this shit?
 
This thread :facepalm:

I’m interested in the ideas and praxis underlying anarchism but seeing factions have all this small-p politics with each other makes me want to stay a million miles from the people and groups involved. Who has the time or emotional bandwidth for this shit?
Sorry to hear that. But I quite understand why.
 
Good. Maybe we can move forward.

I joined the ACG after the split and those involved in the split have been very circumspect and diplomatic about it. And, importantly, they are now a small minority of the organisation. The vast majority weren’t there, weren’t involved, and are sick fed up being tarred as transphobes because of this. The sooner the Matthew Hopkins-alike rumours and smears stop the better.

I’m glad that you’ve clarified you don’t think the ACG is transphobic. I’m happy to take your word that the cowardly and bizarre anonymous BinACG account is not you. You’ve rightly condemned it too. Thank you. And I’m sorry to hear someone posted your details and called you transphobic. That’s out of order.

This feels like a clearing of air. Give me a shout if you’re in Glasgow. We can get a pint and have a blether.


Steady on now... we can't have Urban 75 being the spring board for Anarchism getting along in the UK, it's got a reputation to keep up. ;p
 
Still don't get why any of this means you couldn't have either answered a straight question or said you weren't in a position to, which was all that was required and is pretty basic for an event organising collective.
While I understand that's frustrating, and apologies for the seemingly pointed silence (truly didn't see just how volumous that was) but I'm not addressing certain things for certain reasons.
 
This thread :facepalm:

I’m interested in the ideas and praxis underlying anarchism but seeing factions have all this small-p politics with each other makes me want to stay a million miles from the people and groups involved. Who has the time or emotional bandwidth for this shit?
It's partly what comes from being few in number, from being largely disassociated from communities and workplaces, from lacking enough core assumptions about what anarchism means. Even a reasonably numerous number of people spread out over the whole country find it difficult to act collectively. A small number of individuals can easily come to dominate organisations without even trying to. Where anarchist movements elsewhere in the world have become mass movements their whole approach has been more coherent, more democratic, more effective.

Having said that, there can also be a strength in diversity, though not very evident here sometimes.
 
This thread :facepalm:

I’m interested in the ideas and praxis underlying anarchism but seeing factions have all this small-p politics with each other makes me want to stay a million miles from the people and groups involved. Who has the time or emotional bandwidth for this shit?

Yeah, honestly it's this shit which keeps half my active mates out of organising, and it's 90% miscommunication and aggy responses. It is tho like the least of what Anarchism is the UK, Thread might have an ego, but I wouldn't take it as the start and finish of Anarchist organising which in reality is often much more comradely and all about direct action and mutual aid.
 
...and it's 90% miscommunication...

Oh that's fantastic from someone involved in a project that seemingly cannot reply to emails or answer simple questions.

Workshops needed at this year's bookfair:

1) Where to buy a diary from and how to use it.
2) Basic communication skills; replying to emails and messages.
3) How to turn up on time and other mysteries of the universe solved.
4) Behaving like a toddler in disputes: is it all that it's cracked up to be?
5) Taking on projects and not actually lunching them out.
6) Revolutionaries or fucked-up weirdos; your difficult questions answered.
 
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While I understand that's frustrating, and apologies for the seemingly pointed silence (truly didn't see just how volumous that was) but I'm not addressing certain things for certain reasons.
So, it's nothing as petty as a political disagreement around the AF/ACG split... and it's something so important you couldn't even reply to the ACG to let them know whether they should plan for running a stall. That would have to be at the level of a major threat to someone's/a group of people's wellbeing or safety. Whatever your reason for not doing the normal things that event organisers do would have to be at that level of seriousness? If there really is something so threatening in play, I really hope you'll follow Danny's suggestion and enter into a confidential dialogue.
 
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