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London Anarchist bookfair 2020

andysays said:
Can you confirm that the Bookfair will be totally HSE compliant? Rules, as we all know at heart, are actually there for everyone's benefit.

Maybe you could appoint an experienced person to be in charge of Health and Safety on the day, including issuing appropriate PPE. This person could also vet all stallholders and attendees by means of their clothing, speech and other lifestyle details to ensure that they are authentically working class.

Unfortunately I can't suggest anyone for the role, as they would need a pretty unique set of skills to do the job. Anyone else have any suggestions?
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Magnus seems well versed in these matters if they want the job.
 
copliker said:
It's a reference to a popular documentary about illegalist comrades who were active in the american deep south in the 1980s.
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I'm glad to have been corrected :D:thumbs:

And here was I thinking its a dead giveaway for POMO liberal Goldsmith types LARPing* as left wing (this time as anarchist), and using a cover by appropriating the language of an oppressed group, this time black people from the deep south.



*Live Action Role Play
 
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LynnDoyleCooper said:
OK, I've got some other concerns outside the 'trans debate' that I'll try and address to you later as they'll be longer.

For the moment though reading the stuff you've put out so far I have a question for you. I'm an anarchist and have been for quite a few years. I don't think, however, that someone that was born male can 'become' female. I also think that in certain situations (very few tbh) a transwoman shouldn't expect or demand to be treated exactly the same as someone that is a woman.

Am I welcome at this Bookfair?
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So I'm going to avoid the trans rights debate proper but yeah, look, we're not the thought police, we're not going to have a ID sheet of everyone who ever said anything unsavoury. Not everyone is a prominant voice in the world of bigotry like... peeps like Posie Parker arn't invited but Pete from sough who doesn't really get the trans thing but whatever I'm interested in anti fracking, no ones gunna hassle ya.

No doubt many people with these concerns will attend and simply respect the space by not sharing leaflets and not saying about it to cause a ruck. It's be flippin weird if we expected everyone to pass some kind of purity test for the Anarchist politics like and we wont be don't anything of the sort.
 
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chilango said:
Rhyddical

I know you've sort of addressed this, but I think it deserves further discussion.

What exactly are the grounds for invites vs. exclusion in the book fair?

There's a number of nin-anarchist groups on the list already.

Plan C, for example, who I quite like have put our pro-Labour Party stuff, and at a glance appear to be quite sympathetic to Kurdish nationalism.

Class War, who stand for election.

Animal rights groups? Why?

My own opinion is that I don't particularly mind. I don't especially identify as an Anarchist anymore, so it's cool with me....

...but then I'm not putting on an Anarchist Book fair. How are you you going to deal with groups who feel they have just as much a claim as say Plan C but who might be less welcome?

Be good to see some increased clarity.

Good luck, I look forward to coming along in 2020.
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To grab a specific one Plan C were at 2017, Edin Bookfair this year etc... the nature of their organisation means they are quite diverse and from my experiance they'ver always ajusted their presentation for the space. I don't think Class War were actually trying to get elected rather that share a stage at tories and give em shit but that kind of stuff to me personally is quibble. We should have arguments about our differant methods, that is what Bookfairs are for really. Discussing AF's positon on National Liberation movements or some such.

Animal Rights groups have a long history of association with Anarchist and the scene in general. I think it was only a few years back that the HSA and AFN put out a joint statement of solidarity etc. Many sabs are Anarchos and there the worlds tend to blend. Bookfairs tend to have a lot of blur otherwise they would be rather bland, tho there is some value to having a Anarchist specific conferance which would be less about trading ideas with punters and workshops on plastic waste and more on tearing down the capitalist state like.

There isn't a hard and fast rule atm, I doubt there will be. Stall invites/ refusal will be heavily based on our personal expriance and knowledge. If LABC folk join us we will no doubt defer quite a bit to their experiances with whose a dick n not. We've said no to a few already, nice and polite, free association etc nothing hostile and aside from the transphobic lobby, who feel we owe them space, everyone has respected it.
 
chilango said:
I don't think "y'all" is on the banned list.
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Ah shit. I don't know why it would be seen as "edgy" lol I lived in Maryland for a spell and sound like I'm one of the Dixie Chicks half the time. I'm writing her as me self rather than any BNS "formal voice"... I guess sometimes I'm an annoying twat haha
 
Rhyddical said:
To grab a specific one Plan C were at 2017, Edin Bookfair this year etc... the nature of their organisation means they are quite diverse and from my experiance they'ver always ajusted their presentation for the space. I don't think Class War were actually trying to get elected rather that share a stage at tories and give em shit but that kind of stuff to me personally is quibble. We should have arguments about our differant methods, that is what Bookfairs are for really. Discussing AF's positon on National Liberation movements or some such.

Animal Rights groups have a long history of association with Anarchist and the scene in general. I think it was only a few years back that the HSA and AFN put out a joint statement of solidarity etc. Many sabs are Anarchos and there the worlds tend to blend. Bookfairs tend to have a lot of blur otherwise they would be rather bland, tho there is some value to having a Anarchist specific conferance which would be less about trading ideas with punters and workshops on plastic waste and more on tearing down the capitalist state like.

There isn't a hard and fast rule atm, I doubt there will be. Stall invites/ refusal will be heavily based on our personal expriance and knowledge. If LABC folk join us we will no doubt defer quite a bit to their experiances with whose a dick n not. We've said no to a few already, nice and polite, free association etc nothing hostile and aside from the transphobic lobby, who feel we owe them space, everyone has respected it.
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Thanks.

Would it be nosey to ask who you've said "no" to?
 
chilango said:
Thanks.

Would it be nosey to ask who you've said "no" to?
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Not sure about giving private info out sure you understand // cba with the subsequent drama of oi, but X are alright! etc Don't need a telling off but one of RCG asked publically and were told they are welcome to do their usual outside. TBF most groups know there place with the ze Anarchists so wouldn't bother, really.
 
Magnus McGinty said:
How do you know if I’m welcome or not?
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I thought we'd gone over this. Are you sexy in Hi Vis? lol

To answer the original question tho

It's a small job site so the induction to those setting up with be pointing at the kettle and the lavs. Tho I imagine Volunteers on the day will have Hi Vis so peeps can find 'em easy.
 
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Rhyddical

1. "Any politic which would seek to oppress, undermine or remove the rights and liberties of others is anathematic to Anarchism and will find no welcome nor tolerance at the bookfair itself or any associated event or space."

I would like to remove rights and liberties from landlords, business owners, fascists, cops, the royal family etc. I would welcome your thoughts on that.

2. Will the August 10th meeting be invite only or an open meeting?

3. Some critics of the previous London Anarchist Bookfair got very agitated about criticism of religion. Is this something the new collective has discussed?

Also a general point - the bookfair will be a lot more accessible to ordinary people if use of words like "anathematic" is avoided.
 
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Fozzie Bear said:
Rhyddical

1. "Any politic which would seek to oppress, undermine or remove the rights and liberties of others is anathematic to Anarchism and will find no welcome nor tolerance at the bookfair itself or any associated event or space."

I would like to remove rights and liberties from landlords, business owners, fascists, cops, the royal family etc. I would welcome your thoughts on that.

2. Will the August 10th meeting be invite only or an open meeting?

3. Some critics of the previous London Anarchist Bookfair got very agitated about criticism of religion. Is this something the new collective has discussed?
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1. Ok, so thats an easy biting point but really it's a bit semantical. We all know and understand what "oppression" is and whose facing it. Parasites, cops and kings can fuck off, they arn't oppressed and even in a world where they "could be" they simply would exist surely. I remember reading something that after the commie rev in China the emporer ended up getting a job as a shoemaker, treated like any other person on the street. Personal I recon after the skum fucking everyone over answer for their crimes, makes up for it or whatever they'll be left to go about their buisness and pursue their happiness. Never thought about it but I'd be pretty against creating an underclass in society based on "your grand dad was a CEO" lol inb4 "I knew you were a maoist" lol

2. This first one will be private, anyone is welcome to ask for an invite but the specifics are private simply becuase of the aggy people insisting we give them a platform. Later meetings will be public. People are welcome to join the collective at any level at any point, so there is no need to "get in early" or anything.

3. Only lightly... I suspect it'll be a thing we clarify down the line. I think is it's a bit more complex that "No religion" as an absolute, especially when we take into consideration oppression based on these lines. I've no time for Christianity or Islam but I'm sure as shit not going to condone Christians using Islam as an excuse to persecute people. Then there is the whole "post colonial issue", I think traditional faiths and such are a differant matter to global organised religions and we need more nuance, even it we want a future where religion has no appeal. Honestly I tend to defer to the communities that have gone through shit and respect their Anarchist thinking, The Indigenous Anarchist Federation (The one with the blue logo) are well worth a follow. What does that mean for Bookfair? IDK thats up to the collective. I'd expect it to be one of those areas that should be up for debate and barny in revolutionary space and at the end of the day there has always been a mingling of wiccas, new agers and spiritual people at these things and encounters beliefs counter to yours (provided they are not oppressive / homophobia / racism etc) is what it's all about. I suppose it's all about context and how anti-thesist present the the case for getting rid of the fucking churchs and oppressive insitutions that have caused so much destruction. We will endevour to make the space accessable and welcoming to Anarchists and Anarchist friendly people of faith tho so no DEATH TO QUAKERS banners is probably a given.
 
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Rhyddical said:
1. Ok, so thats an easy biting point but really it's a bit semantical. We all know and understand what "oppression" is and whose facing it. Parasites, cops and kings can fuck off, they arn't oppressed and even in a world where they "could be" they simply would exist surely. I remember reading something that after the commie rev in China the emporer ended up getting a job as a shoemaker. Treated like any other person on the street. Personal I recon after the skum fucking everyone over answer for their crimes, makes up for it or whatever they'll be left to go about their buisness and pursue their happiness. Never thought about it but I'd be pretty against creating an underclass in society based on "your grand dad was a CEO" lol
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there's an easy and indeed sure way to prevent putative grand-kids facing such opprobrium, which i expect many people would be quite happy with for the royal family and which was used to great effect in china and vietnam against landlords
 
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Rhyddical said:
1. Ok, so thats an easy biting point but really it's a bit semantical. We all know and understand what "oppression" is and whose facing it. Parasites, cops and kings can fuck off, they arn't oppressed and even in a world where they "could be" they simply would exist surely. I remember reading something that after the commie rev in China the emporer ended up getting a job as a shoemaker. Treated like any other person on the street. Personal I recon after the skum fucking everyone over answer for their crimes, makes up for it or whatever they'll be left to go about their buisness and pursue their happiness. Never thought about it but I'd be pretty against creating an underclass in society based on "your grand dad was a CEO" lol
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Well clearly we have different understandings of this issue which is why I am asking. During any revolutionary upheaval it will be necessary to remove the rights and liberties of landowners etc. In the meantime, even squatting a property is an infringement of the property rights of the owner. This isn't just semantics. It could be badly written, or I may be misunderstanding the statement. Perhaps both. But it is a weakness in the opening statement that several people here have read bad things into.

Rhyddical said:
2. This first one will be private, anyone is welcome to ask for an invite but the specifics are private simply becuase of the aggy people insisting we give them a platform. Later meetings will be public. People are welcome to join the collective at any level at any point, so there is no need to "get in early" or anything.
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Fair enough. I will see if I pass muster for an invite. Thanks also for responding to my Q about religion.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
Well clearly we have different understandings of this issue which is why I am asking. During any revolutionary upheaval it will be necessary to remove the rights and liberties of landowners etc. In the meantime, even squatting a property is an infringement of the property rights of the owner. This isn't just semantics. It could be badly written, or I may be misunderstanding the statement. Perhaps both. But it is a weakness in the opening statement that several people here have read bad things into..
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Hands up, I'm not the best at explaining and tbf maybe I am dismissing it a bit easy. It's probably on me.

I guess I'm being a bit glib.

For the purpose of the statement "no oppression" fits tho imo... is there nuance and interesting debates to be had? sure. The question of Squatters and / owner rights is an interesting one... just not sure how we could put that in a statement while retaining the punch needed to counter bigotry.

I'm willing to acknowledge that the statement isn't perfect by any means and not sure but I think there may be some inclination to have a revised statement come the new year, no doubt taking onboard fair points like these.
 
Rhyddical said:
Hands up, I'm not the best at explaining and tbf maybe I am dismissing it a bit easy. It's probably on me.

I guess I'm being a bit glib.

For the purpose of the statement "no oppression" fits tho imo... is there nuance and interesting debates to be had? sure. The question of Squatters and / owner rights is an interesting one... just not sure how we could put that in a statement while retaining the punch needed to counter bigotry.

I'm willing to acknowledge that the statement isn't perfect by any means and not sure but I think there may be some inclination to have a revised statement come the new year, no doubt taking onboard fair points like these.
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It's obviously easier to criticise these things than it is to write them, but that statement is just not great imo, sorry.

It seems to use obscure words ("politic" and "anathematic") to say things that are quite vague.

It uses phrases that are complete bullshit like "theory and praxis" to sound fancy.

It uses phrases that are grammatically incorrect like "In respect to the events" (which is the least of the problems and would be fair enough in isolation)

"No oppression" is a utopian aim which I support. It's completely impractical as a guide to running a Bookfair in a capitalist world though.
 
Pickman's model said:
just say that bigots might get a slap
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HAHA

Straight up, as I'm sure you might imagine setting up a bookfair is like spinning plates. At the same time as people getting upset at us for saying no bigots, we have others thinking we havn't gone far enough. Everyone is in this sort of "sussing us out" phase trying to work out if it's going to end up like a liberals XR gathering or more like a down n dirty punk FUCK YOU fest. We're trying to please the salty as fuck old guard and the yoot with intersectional focus. the LABC did this pretty well and got a wide range of ages and stuff in the door, I couldn't really tell you what the tone and temperment of Bookfair 2020 will be, tho it'll probably look and feel a lot like the old bookfair because 99% of it was a success and fuckin rocked. Truly I hope a few of them do get involved with 2020 like.

But yeah, bigots might get a slap.
We aint the tolerant left like.
 
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