Liz Truss’s time is up

[LDC]

Just read that line from her Spectator interview about her wanting to build a 'strong intellectual base' for her agenda in the Conservative party.

Nearly spat my coffee out. She's totally deluded.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just read that line from her Spectator interview about her wanting to build a 'strong intellectual base' for her agenda in the Conservative party.

Nearly spat my coffee out. She's totally deluded.

she couldn't build an intellectual base for 2+2=4

 

[two sheds]

She'll start posing for loads of different photographs in intellectual clothing soon

 

[LDC]

I'd say she needs to be kicked to death, but I fear it might be like trying to kick a balloon she's so empty inside.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say she needs to be kicked to death, but I fear it might be like trying to kick a balloon she's so empty inside.

it'd be like kicking a bag full of dog shit, you'd end up with mess all over you

 

[ska invita]

Just read that line from her Spectator interview about her wanting to build a 'strong intellectual base' for her agenda in the Conservative party.

Nearly spat my coffee out. She's totally deluded.

This is totally correct though, her line is classic conservative party doctrine, and good for her for standing up for real conservative values.
Sunak and Starmer are Lib Dems. Ideally they would join the Lib Dems, and let Labour and the Tories be the parties they are acutally meant to be

 

[LDC]

This is totally correct though, her line is classic conservative party doctrine, and good for her for standing up for real conservative values.
Sunak and Starmer are Lib Dems. Ideally they would join the Lib Dems, and let Labour and the Tories be the parties they are acutally meant to be

It was her mentioning an intellectual base rather than the political content.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is totally correct though, her line is classic conservative party doctrine, and good for her for standing up for real conservative values.

It's really not. The battles she wants to wage (beating up the organised working class, massive transfers of wealth from poor to rich, 'cutting red tape') are 40 years out of date. A (bad) Thatcher tribute act is not necessary. The issues facing the elite and capital - stagflation, climate emergency, migration, the collapse of hegemonic American power and rival poles of power: the 'Polycrisis' - are being fought elsewhere. Truss, politically and intellectually, represents the last brain fart of a particular base within the Tory party membership and its backbenches.

 

[domestos]

Truss is simply deluded and a stranger to reality. With her background and upbringing (the real one, not her mythological version) how on earth did she end up like this

 

[ska invita]

ere. Truss, politically and intellectually, represents the last brain fart of a particular base within the Tory party membership and its backbenches.

Traditional Tory Values, and the majority opinion among the membership

 

[rubbershoes]

I don't know why people are finding Truss' comments so mind twisting. When Dorres was kicked out of the ERG WhatsApp group and the exchanges became public, this post from Marcus Fysh caught my eye:
View attachment 362196
For the ERG loons the pay off from Brexit (and I don't want to start that debate again - many people voted for Brexit for many reasons) was to break with the EU model of capitalism so they could undertake radical supply side reform: cut taxes & slash regulations, with the unwavering belief that this will bring 'growth'. They were never happy with Johnson who, despite being the public face of Brexit was never really on board with this. Truss won the leadership by promising to do this from day one. Which she did. And the international markets said 'no', seeing it as the idealistically driven nonsense that it is. She was kicked out and replaced by Sunak, a man of the international markets.

The establishment that she's railing against is the western (specifically EU flavoured) international global capitalist system and the politicians, officials, the institutions that make it up and support it. What's left and right depends on where you're looking from and this system, which from everyone here's point of view is very much to the right is to the left of the headbangers she represents.

Having met the odious Mr Fysh more than once, I can confirm he's as much of an idiot as he appears

 

[ska invita]

Truss is simply deluded and a stranger to reality.

She is defending Conservative ideology. She represents majority opinion in the membership.
When Corbyn lost it didn't change the belief of the membership in the values he embodied, and rightly so.
Corbyn continues to spend every waking day promoting that political position. So it is with Truss...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

She is defending Conservative ideology. She represents majority opinion in the membership.
When Corbyn lost it didn't change the belief of the membership in the values he embodied, and rightly so.
Corbyn continues to spend every waking day promoting that political position. So it is with Truss...

I'd say there's one difference right there. Corbyn embodies a set of values. Does Truss? From what I can understand from her, which isn't loads tbf, her policies were geared towards producing growth, ie they were instrumentalist. But they did the opposite when they were tried. So she is wrong in a way that even Corbyn's harshest critics can't say that Corbyn is wrong.

Even Thatcher moved away from monetarism when it became clear that it didn't work in the way it was supposed to work, that the world wasn't what monetarists believed it to be, that money isn't quite what monetarists believed it to be.

 

[Ax^]

..

It's really not. The battles she wants to wage (beating up the organised working class, massive transfers of wealth from poor to rich, 'cutting red tape') are 40 years out of date. A (bad) Thatcher tribute act is not necessary. The issues facing the elite and capital - stagflation, climate emergency, migration, the collapse of hegemonic American power and rival poles of power: the 'Polycrisis' - are being fought elsewhere. Truss, politically and intellectually, represents the last brain fart of a particular base within the Tory party membership and its backbenches.

think thats a bit hopefully still a thought in plenty of the tory base

and they have been hint her idea were not incorrect to push for growth but it was her timing and character that was the problem
her and the other ideas of the ERG will be revisited time and again with the party

 

[ska invita]

I'd say there's one difference right there. Corbyn embodies a set of values. Does Truss? From what I can understand from her, which isn't loads tbf, her policies were geared towards producing growth, ie they were instrumentalist. But they did the opposite when they were tried. So she is wrong in a way that even Corbyn's harshest critics can't say that Corbyn is wrong.

Low taxes, collapsing social security and Bringing Back The Workhouse are Fundamental Tory Values - what else is there to the ideology?

Her policies werent tried - they didnt get a chance - thats the argument

 

[Pickman's model]

Low taxes, collapsing social security and Bringing Back The Workhouse are Fundamental Tory Values - what else is there to the ideology?

Her policies werent tried - they didnt get a chance - thats the argument

destroy the nhs
smash state infrastructure
increase child poverty

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Low taxes, collapsing social security and Bringing Back The Workhouse are Fundamental Tory Values -

Her policies werent tried - they didnt get a chance - thats the argument

Her policies produced a disastrous effect simply by being proposed. I can see how logically she has nowhere else to go except to call capitalist markets left-wing. But as was pointed out at the time, John McDonnell spent a lot of effort preparing capitalist markets for what he and Corbyn wanted to do. Truss did none of that. Among other things, she's an arrogant idiot, hence ending up in this ludicrous place.

Whatever values she might represent - even if 'back to the 19th century' is a set of values, as you suggest - her sheer staggering incompetence is what shone through.

 

[kabbes]

She is defending Conservative ideology. She represents majority opinion in the membership.
When Corbyn lost it didn't change the belief of the membership in the values he embodied, and rightly so.
Corbyn continues to spend every waking day promoting that political position. So it is with Truss...

I think there is another interpretation of what happened.

Adopting particular stances, values and policy positions helped her to gain favour and power within the Tory party. It wasn’t that she had some great ideology and theory underpinning this. She was just in a particular place at a particular time and this is what others were saying and it worked for her to also say it. Having achieved success with these ideas, she then came to believe in them. It’s a classic defence mechanism — “this is what I said, I am a consistent and truthful person therefore what I said must be what I have always believed”. So she’s now left to give reasons for something that she never reasoned herself into in the first place. The logic of what wasn’t logical. She can’t admit to herself that it doesn’t make sense, because that would be admitting that it was always just political convenience. Therefore, there must be some external force that is preventing the truth of what she said from being realised.

 

[ska invita]

Her policies produced a disastrous effect simply by being proposed. I can see how logically she has nowhere else to go except to call capitalist markets left-wing. But as was pointed out at the time, John McDonnell spent a lot of effort preparing capitalist markets for what he and Corbyn wanted to do. Truss did none of that. Among other things, she's an arrogant idiot, hence ending up in this ludicrous place.

Whatever values she might represent - even if 'back to the 19th century' is a set of values, as you suggest - her sheer staggering incompetence is what shone through.

i agree with all that - of course

 

[andysays]

Traditional Tory Values, and the majority opinion among the membership

Your idea of traditional Tory values suggests you've forgotten that Thatcher herself went very much against what were considered traditional Tory values before she transformed Tory ideology.

 

[ska invita]

I think there is another interpretation of what happened.

Adopting particular stances, values and policy positions helped her to gain favour and power within the Tory party. It wasn’t that she had some great ideology and theory underpinning this. She was just in a particular place at a particular time and this is what others were saying and it worked for her to also say it. Having achieved success with these ideas, she then came to believe in them. It’s a classic defence mechanism — “this is what I said, I am a consistent and truthful person therefore what I said must be what I have always believed”. So she’s now left to give reasons for something that she never reasoned herself into in the first place. The logic of what wasn’t logical. She can’t admit to herself that it doesn’t make sense, because that would be admitting that it was always just political convenience. Therefore, there must be some external force that is preventing the truth of what she said from being realised.

im not a historian of the development of Truss-thought but wanting to reduce taxes and fuck everyone who suffers is as old as the tory shire hills

she did write it all down ten years ago

Britannia Unchained - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ska invita]

Your idea of traditional Tory values suggests you've forgotten that Thatcher herself went very much against what were considered traditional Tory values before she transformed Tory ideology.

i think the 45+ years era of neo-liberal doctrine is a good practical place to draw a line as to what the Tories are fundamentally about.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I can well believe the Tory membership, and possibly even the MPs, would try again with someone who'd go back down that route tbh. I can't see any way that it would be her though. What would be the point, she's a charisma-vacuum and a proven massive failure. Even on the terms of the Tories most lunatic fringes I can't see she brings anything now. There's no way they can't find someone else who hasn't shit the bed to that degree.

 

[Lorca]

Kemi Badenoch maybe?

 

[teqniq]

I have been wondering this myself for some time, but it's not just Truss. None of them have any shame whatsoever:

Is any Tory capable of feeling shame?

Liz Truss is merely the latest senior Conservative to blame everyone but herself for the damage inflicted on the country.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[PR1Berske]

From the Telegraph

A Tory pro-tax cuts pressure group led by allies of Liz Truss claims to have more than 50 MPs signed up, theoretically giving it the numbers to inflict defeats on the Government.
The Conservative Growth Group even has some “shadow members” who are ministers helping to lobby from inside the Government, according to sources in the group.

Weekly meetings are being held in Parliament, and pushing the Treasury to adopt tax cuts, urging new childcare support and seeking house-building reforms are three early priorities.
There is political danger for Rishi Sunak in the group’s ambitions, with an eagerness among some of those involved to force change on the Government if its proposals are not adopted.

If opposition parties weigh in behind an amendment it normally needs around 40 Tory MPs to rebel to defeat the Government in Commons votes – something that would be possible given the Conservative Growth Group’s numbers.

One forthcoming focus of tension will be the economic strategy in the Budget on March 15, with Mr Sunak and Jeremy Hunt, the Chancellor, insisting that now is not the time for tax cuts.

Ms Truss, the former prime minister who went public with a defence of her tax-slashing mini-Budget this week, is supporting the group and attended a meeting in recent days.

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The group is being led by Tory MPs Simon Clarke and Ranil Jayawardena, who were respectively communities secretary and environment secretary in Ms Truss’s Cabinet.

But there are ambitions to show it is not simply a vehicle for her agenda – which backfired and ended in her resignation. She is not on the steering committee, and some allies of Mr Sunak are being wooed.

A deliberate decision has been taken to keep the membership secret – unlike that of other Tory pressure groups such as the pro-Brexit European Research Group – but senior figures told The Telegraph more than 50 Tory MPs have signed up. Boris Johnson, another former prime minister, is understood not to have joined.
Currently, the group’s members are keeping their activities behind closed doors, meeting ministers in the Treasury and other departments to push policy causes.

In the coming months, most likely after the Budget, the group intends to start publishing policy papers making the case for its proposals. It will be seen as an attempt to bounce Mr Sunak into adopting a bolder pro-growth economic agenda, with the direction of fiscal policy an area of fierce debate among Tory MPs.

The Prime Minister’s backers have dismissed those calling for immediate tax cuts when inflation is still high, pointing to the financial fallout of Ms Truss’s mini-Budget as proof.



On Wednesday night, the Conservative Growth Group met in Parliament, with around 15 to 20 people in attendance. Tax cuts were among the topics discussed, according to a source who was present.
One MP who attended later criticised Mr Sunak’s recent reshuffle, telling The Telegraph it was a “damp squib” about which voters would “not give a hoot”.

Tensions over economic policy, and especially taxation, look set to be one of the defining battles inside the Conservative Party this year. Mr Sunak has named halving inflation as one of the five priorities for his early premiership, with warnings that major tax cuts this spring could undercut that push

 

[Ax^]

aye the thatcherite loon fringe has gone no were in the tory party

 

[gentlegreen]

I wonder what Sunak thinks of her going to Japan next week where she plans to mouth-off against China ?

truss china japan - Google Search

 

[hash tag]

Maybe she is emigrating, he says hopefully.

 

[gosub]