LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[InArduisFouette]

I'm laughing at your lack of awareness of this place. LBJ is totally sound and would probably be a strong ally of yours if you weren't such a fucking rod.

Your characterisation of him as "advocating torturing children" has probably just blown away any support you may have had among other posters.

oh just boor off you you will fully ignorant fool,

allies don't advocate Conversion therpay and understand that individuals know themselves best , tany Ally also doesn;t try and play psychologist to dissuade a human being from being themselves

 

[InArduisFouette]

I've no idea who you are, but the two people you've singled put are two of the most humane, decent people on this board - and littlebabyjesus and I agree on almost nothing.

It's a pity this debate is so toxic, though one begins to wonder if it's the subject, or the protagonists...

do you understanding what an Affirming model of care is ?
do you understanding how that looks with regard to Gender incongruent Children ?

 

[Spymaster]

oh just boor off

Bore.

 

[planetgeli]

When i was being hauled over the coals by my company after an anonymous and untrue accusation from a transphobic member of the public I noticed that the person in HR who was leading the "investigation" followed an extremist African evangelist, on Twitter, who was all about ranting against trans people. didn't do me any good though, but I did survive.


Oh and when I Left 3 years later they made me sign a NDA - which is why I'm being vague.

Out of interest, bit I've put in bold, what's the significance of the followed person being African in this situation? Particularly as you said you were trying to keep things vague?

 

[InArduisFouette]

Out of interest, bit I've put in bold, what's the significance of the followed person being African in this situation? Particularly as you said you were trying to keep things vague?

'mainstream' thought within the African partso the anglican community is seen as extreme position without other parts of the Anglican communion and associated Churches in the developed world which are somewhat aligned, in the typicla way that certain aprts of the empire seem to wish to cling to the extremems of the C19th attitudes of the colonisers

 

[bcuster]

Not LGBTQ, but...

A Florida mom was barred from dropping her kids off at a private Christian school over a decal promoting her OnlyFans page

A Florida mom, who goes by Piper Fawn on OnlyFans, was told to park across the street from her kids' school over a decal promoting her adult content.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[InArduisFouette]

Not LGBTQ, but...

A Florida mom was barred from dropping her kids off at a private Christian school over a decal promoting her OnlyFans page

A Florida mom, who goes by Piper Fawn on OnlyFans, was told to park across the street from her kids' school over a decal promoting her adult content.

www.businessinsider.com

the 'white jesus' religious right in the US and their projects such as TERFery and the Griftian Legal Centre in the UK and 'Citizen Go' in europe are signs they want a Taliban style Theocracy

 

[Sweet FA]

the two people you've singled put are two of the most humane, decent people on this board

I agree with you - it doesn't stop them having abysmal and harmful views about this (imo obviously). I don't think the language being used is helpful at all though.

eta - I should keep that ref to spy really who's been very clear - I don't know enough about lbj's opinion.

 

[8ball]

Not LGBTQ, but...

A Florida mom was barred from dropping her kids off at a private Christian school over a decal promoting her OnlyFans page

A Florida mom, who goes by Piper Fawn on OnlyFans, was told to park across the street from her kids' school over a decal promoting her adult content.

www.businessinsider.com

That is pretty icky tbf.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I agree with you - it doesn't stop them having abysmal and harmful views about this (imo obviously). I don't think the language being used is helpful at all though.

the fundamental problem is people painting 'affirming care' as some kind of bizarre unrealistic fantasy that simply does not happen ...

meanwhile using euphemisms like 'watchful waiting ' and 'exploratory therapy' for what is de-facto and de -jure Conversion therapy ...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not advocating conversion therapy by questioning the approaches of the likes of Stonewall and Mermaids. There are more than two positions on this. But we've been here before. I would quote the likes of David Bell, who I think has very sensible things to say about the subject. He isn't a bigot or a transphobe. I don't actually buy some of his psychoanalytic stuff, but his embrace of doubt and ambiguity is surely right. But I'm not going to do a deep dive into this again.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Out of interest, bit I've put in bold, what's the significance of the followed person being African in this situation? Particularly as you said you were trying to keep things vague?

Because African churches have been particularly anti LGBT. More so than home grown churches - or even US churches.

Not sure that identifying the home continent of the evangelical organisation in question means I can be identified any easier. I put it in there for the context of the much more anti LGBT fervour of these churches, many of whom are now setting up base in the UK.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I'm not advocating conversion therapy by questioning the approaches of the likes of Stonewall and Mermaids. There are more than two positions on this. But we've been here before. I would quote the likes of David Bell, who I think has very sensible things to say about the subject. He isn't a bigot or a transphobe. I don't actually buy some of his psychoanalytic stuff, but his embrace of doubt and ambiguity is surely right. But I'm not going to do a deep dive into this again.

David Bell is a transphobe, this is very clear for any objective reading of his emissions.

He also abused his position as a Staff Governor of T+P to get access to information.

then of course there's his involvement in Mr Qunicy Bell ( no relation) 's tissue of utter lies in court


I seriously suggest you appraise yourself of the actual evidence base on this subject.

I see you seem to be avoiding sharing what your view of Affirming care is ...

 

[PTK]

I look forrward to a post-gender world, myself.

 

[smokedout]

I'm laughing at your lack of awareness of this place. LBJ is totally sound and would probably be a strong ally of yours if you weren't such a fucking rod.

Your characterisation of him as "advocating torturing children" has probably just blown away any support you may have had among other posters.

He has consistently and relentlessly pushed gender critical sourced myths and misinformation on the various trans thread and has shown little contrition when he has repeatedly shown to be incorrect. He's no fucking ally.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Anyone bringing up David Bell as voice of reason just loses credibility. I've met the guy - he was one of my consultants. He's just clueless. And apparently he claims that 'trans kids are just gay/lesbian kids being coerced into transition by the clinics'. Which tells you all what you need to know about David Bell.

 

[smokedout]

I'm not advocating conversion therapy by questioning the approaches of the likes of Stonewall and Mermaids. There are more than two positions on this. But we've been here before. I would quote the likes of David Bell, who I think has very sensible things to say about the subject. He isn't a bigot or a transphobe. I don't actually buy some of his psychoanalytic stuff, but his embrace of doubt and ambiguity is surely right. But I'm not going to do a deep dive into this again.

Haha, David Bell, who has no clinical experience of working with trans people and who supports conversion therapy org Genspect who claim amongst other things that young trans people are either confused homosexuals or autogynephilic fetishists and that gender clinics should be aiming for 100% desistance (as in the elimination of young trans people in society via therapeutic means).

 

[InArduisFouette]

Anyone bringing up David Bell as voice of reason just loses credibility. I've met the guy - he was one of my consultants. He's just clueless. And apparently he claims that 'trans kids are just gay/lesbian kids being coerced into transition by the clinics'. Which tells you all what you need to know about David Bell.

T+P are grim

David Bell - see all above


they took an Absolute age to get Rid of Az Hakeem as well who overtly promoted Conversion therapy


some of the 'clinicians' at GIDS were a joke, Psychotherapists and social w**kers claiming to be engaging in diagnosis

 

[InArduisFouette]

Haha, David Bell, who has no clinical experience of working with trans people and who supports conversion therapy org Genspect who claim amongst other things that young trans people are either confused homosexuals or autogynephilic fetishists and that gender clinics should be aiming for 100% desistance (as in the elimination of young trans people in society via therapeutic means).

never mind that AGP is about Ray blanchrds own Paraphilia asa a gay man who also fancies trannies

Blanchard's typology can be replaced with 2 questions

does Chaser Ray fancy you ?
would you let Chaser Ray fuck you ?

2 * yes = HSTS , owt else = AGP

 

[smokedout]

A taste of David Bell and the ecosystem he swims in, plus his cute little diagram attached on what he thinks makes people trans. The guy's an absolute crank and a danger to trans kids.

David Bell, in response to how clinicians can “roll back”, insisted on targeting the schools instead. All of the presenters seemed in agreement that schools were a source of “indoctrination”. In their eyes, the only solution was to erase as much reference to trans people from the schools as possible, from positive representations of trans life to our very presence. Among their targets are the various GSAs and other clubs formed to support LGBTQ+ kids in attempts to remedy decades of isolation.

As soon as Bell said the words “those schools that have been captured […] that’s where most of the damage […] is being done”, my brain went into OH FUCK mode. I abandoned my desk, burst into the neighboring bedroom as I proclaimed to my husband something along the lines of “they’re going after school boards,” and grabbed a hefty bag of potato chips before heading back into the office. I knew something was going to go down soon and there was no way I was getting through it without some snacks.

Unfortunately, I was soon proven right. Two days later, a new lawsuit dropped in Waukeska county, Wisconsin. Headed by Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) and Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty (WILL), the suit (CN: link contains misgendering) sought an injunction against Kettle Moraine school district on behalf of two parents after their kid changed his name and pronouns at school. Genspect later announced that they had met with lawyers from WILL about the case and provided “extensive affidavits from expert and Genspect advisor Dr. Steven Levine.” Yes, you read that right: Genspect is directly collaborating on ADF cases to cut off trans kids at school from supports. I only expect it to get worse from here.

 

[8ball]

never mind that AGP is about Ray blanchrds own Paraphilia asa a gay man who also fancies trannies

Blanchard's typology can be replaced with 2 questions

does Chaser Ray fancy you ?
would you let Chaser Ray fuck you ?

2 * yes = HSTS , owt else = AGP

I haven’t the foggiest what HTTP Strict Transport Security has to do with Accelerated Graphics Ports.

 

[Spymaster]

I agree with you - it doesn't stop them having abysmal and harmful views about this (imo obviously). I don't think the language being used is helpful at all though.

eta - I should keep that ref to spy really who's been very clear -

Ah, just seen your edit

My views are my views, FA. Obviously I disagree that they're abysmal or harmful, or I wouldn't hold them.

I totally get that there are people here who hate me for them, and I regret that.

The difference is that whilst they despise me; I would stand shoulder to shoulder and shed blood with them to defend their right not to be hurt, bullied, or intimidated. I just don't believe biological men can become women.

 

[8ball]

I just don't believe biological men can become women.

Would it be more precise to say you don’t believe biological men can become biological women?

 

[Rob Ray]

A taste of David Bell and the ecosystem he swims in, plus his cute little diagram attached on what he thinks makes people trans. The guy's an absolute crank and a danger to trans kids.

The "body as machine" thing is such a weird digression. Does he mean it in the sense of the human body being looked on as like a machine? Because if so I have some terrifying news for him about how surgeons work. Or is it that thing some of the loonspuds do suggesting trans people are the ideological vanguard of transhumanism? It has a real religious hangover vibe going on either way. Also "internet/social media" - you're on a Zoom call grandad .

 

[Spymaster]

Would it be more precise to say you don’t believe biological men can become biological women?

Well that's a given.

Nobody with an ounce of sanity would ever argue that someone born with a knob and a pair of bollocks, is a biological woman.

Would they?

 

[InArduisFouette]

The "body as machine" thing is such a weird digression. Does he mean it in the sense of the human body being looked on as being looked on like a machine? Because if so I have some terrifying news for him about how surgeons work. Or is it that thing some of the loonspuds do suggesting trans people are the ideological vanguard of transhumanism? It has a real religious hangover vibe going on either way.

IIRC David Bell was trotted out by the Griftian Legal Centre in the 'Keira' Bell ( no relation) GIDS case ...

David Bell has no clinical experience with Gender Incongruence, and despite being a Medicla Doctor had a clinicla practice which was basedon Psychotherapy

Keira who by the way as on the court papers as Mr Qunicy Bell ( funny detransition that) and is apparently now going by Keiron and is back on testosterone ...

 

[InArduisFouette]

Would it be more precise to say you don’t believe biological men can become biological women?

oh dear guess what the Basic Sciences Research proves

Gender-affirming hormone therapy induces specific DNA methylation changes in blood - Clinical Epigenetics

Background DNA methylation is an epigenetic mark that is influenced by underlying genetic profile, environment, and ageing. In addition to X-linked DNA methylation, sex-specific methylation patterns are widespread across autosomal chromosomes and can be present from birth or arise over time. In...

clinicalepigeneticsjournal.biomedcentral.com

they do !

 

[8ball]

Well that's a given.

Ok.

What else did you mean by what you said, aside from my re-formulation?

 

[8ball]

Keira who by the way as on the court papers as Mr Qunicy Bell ( funny detransition that) and is apparently now going by Keiron and is back on testosterone ...

There’s that “apparently” again…

 

[InArduisFouette]

There’s that “apparently” again…

notice how 'Keira' was being paraded, lauded and funded by the far right groups funding this until it became clear the case was lost and that Bell;s future gender direction was not a 'de-transition' into a perfect submissive tradwife

see also " the Detransition advocacy network " and it's 'Hundreds ' of service users ...