Laurence Fox. The twat.

[_Russ_]

Incredible though it is grammar pedantry has actually made this particular thread less boring......only just

 

[cupid_stunt]

Incredible though it is grammar pedantry has actually made this particular thread less boring......only just

This thread has certainly not been boring, you OTOH...

 

[DaveCinzano]

This thread has certainly not been boring, you OTHO...

Have another go

 

[cupid_stunt]

Have another go

You quoted as I was correcting it.

 

[A380]

That's well interesting scifisam, thanks!

We were taught that a reason for smelly work such as tanning to be in the east was the prevailing winds come from the west, which is why the posh houses are all to the west of The City, a pattern you see repeated across cities in the UK. Dunno what came first, the posh houses or smelly work, probably grew up together..?

And not just the UK. The pattern repeats over many many western and central European cities where the posh bit is the west and the poor bit the east.

 

[DaveCinzano]

You quoted as I was correcting it.

Ah, the classic Pickman's mitigation

 

[cupid_stunt]

Ah, the classic Pickman's mitigation

Two words, the second one is 'off'.

 

[CNT36]

Loads of Otho's about these days tbf.

 

[brogdale]

Oxbow lake fun fact; they form when a bend (meander) in a river gets tight and the river cuts through the neck, leading to the entrance and exit of the meander to silt up, leaving the oxbow lake. Eventually the lake will dry out as it has no way to replenish the water except precipitation, which isn't enough to sustain it. Once it dries out it is called a dead-lake, the French word for dead being mort is how they came to name the area between Putney and North Sheen in London. Having been taught this we all got on a bus from Clapham to go an have a look at it, it looked just like Clapham, Putney, Barnes, North Sheen and everywhere else in the area of course, no sign of a dead oxbow lake at all. Teachers in the 80's were fucking odd.

Check out this filth:

 

[Sasaferrato]

You're surely mixing me up with Sasaferrato there.

 

[andysays]

And not just the UK. The pattern repeats over many many western and central European cities where the posh bit is the west and the poor bit the east.

The prevailing wind is generally from west to east everywhere in the world, as a result of the rotation of the planet.

 

[_Russ_]

This thread has certainly not been boring, you OTOH...

Little things....

 

[brogdale]

The prevailing wind is generally from west to east everywhere in the world, as a result of the rotation of the planet.

Yes and No.

Certainly in the mid-latitudes the westerlies prevail, but in the tropics the pressure gradient winds deflected by the rotation of the planet (Coriolis effect) sees prevailing winds with Easterly components that were often termed the 'trade winds' in more overtly colonial times.

 

[brogdale]

Gotta say this tedious pedantry is far more interesting than Fux

 

[scifisam]

That's well interesting scifisam, thanks!

We were taught that a reason for smelly work such as tanning to be in the east was the prevailing winds come from the west, which is why the posh houses are all to the west of The City, a pattern you see repeated across cities in the UK. Dunno what came first, the posh houses or smelly work, probably grew up together..?

Yep, prevailing winds affect a lot when it comes to how cities (and the countryside too) develop.

For London it's also that the route and depth of the river dictated flow of traffic for a long time, and West of the City was pleasanter, more usable woodland/hunting grounds before it became somewhat urban and eventually became Westminster. I don't know much about West London, though. TBH. Basically anything with a W postcode feels quite foreign to me.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Grammar, the Coreolis effect and ox-bow lakes are far more important than discussing Looza. Unless he considers these topics to be 'woke'.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Spelling/apostrophe alert (noticed just now)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yep, prevailing winds affect a lot when it comes to how cities (and the countryside too) develop.

For London it's also that the route and depth of the river dictated flow of traffic for a long time, and West of the City was pleasanter, more usable woodland/hunting grounds before it became somewhat urban and eventually became Westminster. I don't know much about West London, though. TBH. Basically anything with a W postcode feels quite foreign to me.

Basically saying that Hounslow is Nirvana and all who hail from there are the blessed people

 

[scifisam]

Basically saying that Hounslow is Nirvana and all who hail from there are the blessed people

I am only slightly aware of where Hounslow is, TBH. I know it used to be Middlesex but then so was basically everywhere (Even Canning Town, which is what most people would consider east end, was Middlesex until the 1960s).

 

[Serge Forward]

Spelling/apostrophe alert (noticed just now)View attachment 413111

If it's the place of (a) hero, it's correct. If it's the place of heroes (plural) it's wrong and should be Heroes' Place.

 

[newbie]

Brewing, tanning and weaving generally went together as a trade, in cities at least. The brewers would use the good water, then the weavers, then the leatherworkers, then the people who lived there. That is a simplification, but not by much. It's one of the reason the East End and similar area had such high infant mortality rates - not just the lack of food, overcrowding, but the water. That's extra ironic since the source water was often relatively clean, and the assumption is it became dirty due to the insanitary conditions, but it's also partly because the clean water they had was being used for industry.

Fascinating, thankyou but in my mind it raises the question what water?. I've traced the course of most of the waterways in the London, but know of none between the Lee/Lea and the Fleet except the Wallbrook, and of course the artificial ones, the canals and the New River. Do you know what supplied the tanneries and breweries?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I am only slightly aware of where Hounslow is, TBH. I know it used to be Middlesex but then so was basically everywhere (Even Canning Town, which is what most people would consider east end, was Middlesex until the 1960s).

Tis the jewel of West London.


Is it not, tim ?

 

[CNT36]

Spelling/apostrophe alert (noticed just now)View attachment 413111

They just spelt plaice wrong.

 

[DaveCinzano]

They just spelt plaice wrong.

Probably a bit battered when they wrote it

 

[T & P]

Tis the jewel of West London.


Is it not, tim ?

Plane spotters’ paradise

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I am only slightly aware of where Hounslow is, TBH. I know it used to be Middlesex but then so was basically everywhere (Even Canning Town, which is what most people would consider east end, was Middlesex until the 1960s).

umm

if we can drift in to municipal history pedantry, canning town is east of the river lea, so was in west ham borough (a county borough in the county of essex) until the GLC was formed 1965 and it was merged with east ham county borough to form the london borough of newham.

poplar (west of the river lea) was in middlesex until 1889 when it became a metropolitan borough within the (then new) county of london

the outer north / north west / west london boroughs were middlesex until 1965.

but yes, hounslow. i'm not sure i've ever been there. think i've been through hounslow on occasions when the reading - waterloo trains have been on diversion but that's about it.

 

[T & P]

the outer north / north west / west london boroughs were middlesex until 1965.

I wonder if the growing importance of LHR as a major airport might have been influence. If LHR weren’t there that area would be mostly countryside and small villages. Hell, there are still horses roaming in fields by the perimeter fence even to this day. Not really London or Greater London imo.

 

[scifisam]

umm

if we can drift in to municipal history pedantry, canning town is east of the river lea, so was in west ham borough (a county borough in the county of essex) until the GLC was formed 1965 and it was merged with east ham county borough to form the london borough of newham.

poplar (west of the river lea) was in middlesex until 1889 when it became a metropolitan borough within the (then new) county of london

the outer north / north west / west london boroughs were middlesex until 1965.

but yes, hounslow. i'm not sure i've ever been there. think i've been through hounslow on occasions when the reading - waterloo trains have been on diversion but that's about it.

I've seen Canning Town listed as Middlesex on birth certificates and burial records. I know it was likely a mistake, but it happened. I've also seen Bart's Hospital recorded as being in Middlesex.

But yes, the Lea is the dividing line. It's still the dividing line between Tower Hamlets and Hackney for the most part - I don't think it's 100% reliable. I could be wrong and the dividing line is the river still. It's not something I'd stake my life on because boundaries change so much.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I wonder if the growing importance of LHR as a major airport might have been influence. If LHR weren’t there that area would be mostly countryside and small villages. Hell, there are still horses roaming in fields by the perimeter fence even to this day. Not really London or Greater London imo.

dunno really.

one theory is that the tory government of the day wanted to include more suburbs so as to get rid of the (by then) permanently labour london county council. (the decision to form the GLC was made by the tory government that got voted out in 1964 and it was all too far advanced for the wilson government to do anything about it.)

it's also arguable that especially in north london, the boundary was a bit daft - the current boroughs of (for example) newham, haringey, brent, ealing were essex or middlesex, not london. you couldn't really see the join well before the 1939 war.

yes, there are some very rural bits of greater london now - but splitting up (for example) orpington district would have been messy. the GLC could have had an even bigger area - some places (staines, potters bar, chigwell among them) successfully lobbied not to be included in it. more here.

I've seen Canning Town listed as Middlesex on birth certificates and burial records. I know it was likely a mistake, but it happened. I've also seen Bart's Hospital recorded as being in Middlesex.

yes - some official records have errors in them (and some transcriptions of old handwritten records more so. i had a minor argument with one of the london archives about some photos of dartford they had listed online as deptford - i blame transcription of the cursive r)

i think i've seen the little (almost) island just west of canning town station described as canning town, but fairly sure it was always part of poplar administratively.

 

[tim]

I wonder if the growing importance of LHR as a major airport might have been influence. If LHR weren’t there that area would be mostly countryside and small villages. Hell, there are still horses roaming in fields by the perimeter fence even to this day. Not really London or Greater London imo.

Heathrow wasn't dreamt up until the mid-forties as part of a shady scam, although before that there was Heston Airport and even earlier an airfield of heathland in Hounslow West where the first commercial international flight took off to Paris in 1919. It flew Devon Cream, one passenger and several brace of grouse to Le Bourget Airport.

There was a lot of housing and commercial development in the 1930s which effectively joined much of the West and Centre of what is now the Borough of Hounslow to the rest of the broader urban area. My great-grandfather had a tenancy on the Whitton Twickenham borders which was developed into housing in the early thirties, along with most of the farms around him.

The one big area that escaped development was Osterley Park and the farmland that surrounds it. It is now a green island surrounded underneath mid-twentieth century suburban sprawl. My father had relatives who lived in the hamlet of Heath Row. They had mains gas but not electricity, which he, as a child, considered strange.

Film from the 1940s about the the destruction of rural Heathrow




Short history of the topography of the area madea couple of years ago.