Jeremiah18.17
Well-Known Member
I see the Lords will now have a representative of the AKP and Erdogan 
Claire Fox Goes to the House of Lords
- Thread starter Celyn
- Start date
No worries. The Labour Party has been promising this since 1910. These things take a lifetime, a lifetime peerage, for instance!!
Good question. I'd shut down the House of Lords (as it is now) tomorrow.
But as things stand now, some Labour peers have sometimes done some good work at amending/modifying/even voting down some Tory legislation.
I'm sure some of the Labour peers have also been like the others, and guilty of plenty of other things that are bad.
But until the HoL gets to be abolished/completely replaced, then it's better -- marginally? -- to have a few of the buggers there to oppose the Tories than not (IMO).
I do fully get the 'legitimising a wrong institution' argument too.
But I'm having a pragmatism attack today
As a revising chamber with elections at a different stage, then I'd say yes.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
No because with P.R. the leadership could put their cronies, however useless, at the top of the party list and guarantee them a place in parliament thereby obviationg the need for a House of Lords.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
You don't want a second chamber to be similarly elected as the main chamber, because then it would just be a repetition of the same political factioning with members equally subject to party whips (as they would want to seek re-election), and just become a rubber-stamping operation. It would best be done differently, phased single 15 year terms or some such thing.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Well quite. And that's the point isn't it. The head honchos are all still the same people, they've just been through select name changes. RCT, RCP, Living Marxism, LM, Spiked, Institute of Ideas, Academy of Ideas.
I mean, just why would someone (Furedi) parachute themselves into the revolutionary left in the early 70s, use a pseudonym (Frank Richards), cause a split over apartheid in a group already split from the I.S, bang on about an independent working class programme (led by very middle class people such as Richards/Furedi), be avowedly anti-state and anti-capitalist, before undertaking several name changes that turned them into a posh magazine sold on the shelves of W.H Smith while being published by someone with no great source of income at the time (Fox), then change course from the revolutionary tradition they had purported to follow for some time into 'libertarian humanism' which saw them being sponsored by massive capitalist interests such as tobacco companies before recruiting from Oxford someone who would go on to become a Conservative government's top paid advisor - after they'd sent her to finishing school with Furedi in Kent while others of their ilk became media names in the voice of right wing journals?
No, I can't think what might produce such a trajectory. Nothing at all springs to mind.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It could be worse - at least Toby Young didn't get one.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
yes, as a revising and amending House, and as a constitutional backstop
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Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
give it time. They've got four years, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that happens between now and 2024
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Given the Lebedev precendent we'll be welcoming and ennobling all sorts of exiled showers of shit by then: The Earl of Balmedie; Viscount Xi of Hong Kong; the Marquis of Putiney, Baron Kimberworth; the Duke of Erdoganburgh.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
They still all stick together whatever the ideology they espouse, which is more than can be said of any other British political grouping: party/sect.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Lots of women and people of colour in that poster.View attachment 224586
No worries. The Labour Party has been promising this since 1910. These things take a lifetime, a lifetime peerage, for instance!!
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I’d be outraged if I knew who she was.
I see your point, and it's fair to say there have been Tories and Liberals in the Lords who have also done some good amending/modifying etc. (Please don't ask me for examples, because I feel quite lazy and more inclined for dinner and wine and chocolate).Good question. I'd shut down the House of Lords (as it is now) tomorrow.
But as things stand now, some Labour peers have sometimes done some good work at amending/modifying/even voting down some Tory legislation.
I'm sure some of the Labour peers have also been like the others, and guilty of plenty of other things that are bad.
But until the HoL gets to be abolished/completely replaced, then it's better -- marginally? -- to have a few of the buggers there to oppose the Tories than not (IMO).
I do fully get the 'legitimising a wrong institution' argument too.
But I'm having a pragmatism attack today
Oh SHIT! I have just realised how very bad that is.
How bloody un self-aware can I be? Classic bit of "as soon as this pub closes) < extremely embarrassed face > 
Oh, a wee quick phone call from his Dad should sort that out.
Oops, Daddy is dead. Oh well.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I do slightly wonder whether it might be a very deliberate bit of piss-taking, a bit of Trumpian "I can do whatever I want", based possibly on a little informal bet with friends after a convivial dinner.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Sher's such a complete nutjob, evenb the other RCPers think she's bonkers.
That's all you need to know.
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
A lot is certainly down to them believing that they can do whatever they want with impunity, and being right. I'm not sure that it's a deliberate provocation though, rather than them just doing whatever they want because they want to.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Is she a left winger then?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
It's virtually impossible to say, since her views are so completely simulatasnously off the wall and all over the place.
If it's actually possible for someone to be a libertarian-authoritarian stalinist right-populist, I'd say that's probably where she's roughly at
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
All your new posts are mental mate. Demanding a gong for reformed hang mandela type - misreading this piece of shit, spain etc
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Her views are simple individual libertarian within the the context of a growing state. It's simple. It's all the RCP have been about from the start.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
What does she do? I think I read a book by her about English people’s curious customs but suspect it’s a different Fox
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ermm, I didn't demand a gong for anyone, simply observed that it was fairly shitty to deny the sspeaker one out of spite whilst ennobling his own brother
For my part, I wish the whole HoL went years ago. It's utterly indefensible
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But bothered enough to literally get angry that one didn't get rewarded - and not rewarded fo the wrong illegitimate reasons. Stop this cant.ermm, I didn't demand a gong for anyone, simply observed that it was fairly shitty to deny the sspeaker one out of spite whilst ennobling his own brother
For my part, I wish the whole HoL went years ago. It's utterly indefensible
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