Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[19force8]

The files thing sounds like cobblers. An individual can’t simply waltz off with an organisation’s files, which are in any case, surely on a computer and not in a carrier bag.

That's a very weird criticism.

Of course an individual can take an organisation's files - see wikileaks [also, my very detailed personnel file went missing after I retired ]

Files on a computer are easier to nick and even easier to destroy. A lot will depend on the security and back up procedures. However, it's likely that sensitive material isn't kept on the cloud, or even a central server, making it relatively simple to wipe them.

Nobody keeps files in a carrier bag unless it's a carrier bag full of thumb drives.

 

[19force8]

Not really. There was nothing new in it. The programme did come over as a load of Blairite spinning designed to damage their opponents. The evidence base for their claims was thin to put it mildly.

That’s not to detract from the very real issues that arise from Corbyn’s ‘anti-imperialism of fools’ worldview, or the undoubted presence of large numbers of cranks and even genuine racists among the labour hinterland. But last nights ‘expose’ added nothing in my view.

There's also criticism that Panorama borrowed some extras from another documentary*

* The Lobby

 

[Mr Moose]

That's a very weird criticism.

Of course an individual can take an organisation's files - see wikileaks [also, my very detailed personnel file went missing after I retired ]

Files on a computer are easier to nick and even easier to destroy. A lot will depend on the security and back up procedures. However, it's likely that sensitive material isn't kept on the cloud, or even a central server, making it relatively simple to wipe them.

Nobody keeps files in a carrier bag unless it's a carrier bag full of thumb drives.

What I meant was it happen and then nothing happens to the ex staff or is this the NDA action?

 

[19force8]

What I meant was it happen and then nothing happens to the ex staff or is this the NDA action?

You're right, I suspect it's part of the reasoning behind the NDAs. Although how an NDA would prevent something malicious like this I don't know. Might be able to recover the pay off, but at what cost?

Also, very hard to identify which ex staff did it (wiped files and leaked to Daily Fail) without intensive computer forensic work and even then only if good security systems and practices in place.

 

[19force8]

Now Mark Steel is being denounced for this:

Mark Steel: No wonder Labour antisemitism got the ‘Panorama’ treatment – Tory racism is way too much to fit into an hour

Here:

 

[Whagwan]

Tom Watson being a vile wannabee Machiavelli as per:



Jennie Formby's (Labour General Secretary currently having Chemo for breast cancer) reply to his open letter:

Furthermore, traducing my reputation and publicly attacking me when you know I am undergoing chemotherapy and am unable to respond in the media, is another example of the inappropriate way in which you choose to discuss this issue...



You also say in your letter that I have ‘withheld’ the EHRC response from you. You know that this is not the case. I wrote to you twice and offered to meet with you to provide you with the Party’s response to the EHRC.



I also updated the Shadow Cabinet on the EHRC and wider antisemitism issues on Tuesday. Given your considerable public concern around this issue, I am confused as to why you did not raise a single issue or question while at that meeting.

 

[andysays]

Tom Watson being a vile wannabee Machiavelli as per:



Jennie Formby's (Labour General Secretary currently having Chemo for breast cancer) reply to his open letter:

Yeah, I saw reports of Formby's response earlier, in the media funnily enough.

This in no way detracts from Watson's general wankerdom, in case that needs to be said.

 

[1%er]

Having just watched the recent bbc panorama documentary, it reminded me of a documentary I watched a while ago made by aljazeera called The Lobby, a four-part series produced by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit about an Israeli campaign to interfere with domestic politics in the UK (not to be confused with the American documentary of the same name).

The series exposed how covert operations conducted by Israel were promoting a foreign country’s agenda within Britain’s political parties. An undercover journalist, ‘Robin’, was hired to secretly record the activities of an Israeli diplomat as he tried to influence student council elections and set up a pro-Israel youth group in the Labour Party. The series also included evidence of a plot, hatched by the Israeli official and a British civil servant, to “take down” a government minister [part 4] who was critical of Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank.

Pro-Israel advocacy groups made a series of complaints about ‘The Lobby’ to the Office of Communications (Ofcom), the quasi-government regulator that ensures fairness and accuracy in British television journalism. The complainants levelled a range of charges at Al Jazeera, including anti-Semitism, bias and infringement of privacy. After an eight-month investigation, Ofcom’s 60-page ruling rejected each complaint and vindicated Al Jazeera’s journalism on every count, the network has said in a statement.

To save you having to search for it, I have helpfully posted links to all 4 episodes available on youtube below;
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
Episode 4

Its well worth watching, it isn't talking heads making claims without providing evidence to back-up their claims. This is footage showing real people and how they are working to achieve their aims.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Oh well in that case there can't possibly be any antisemitism in the Labour party. The scales have fallen from my eyes.

 

[butchersapron]

Its well worth watching, it isn't talking heads making claims without providing evidence to back-up their claims. This is footage showing real people and how they are working to achieve their aims.

Real jews, just doing jew things. Working to achieve their aims. Their hidden malevolent nefarious anti-british aims.

Not state things. Jew things.

 

[butchersapron]

From 1868's insertion of bred in the bone swp sectarianism defend the left/CW model of this into real life labour branch or CLP meetings (that's CW the right wing thatcherite privatiser when in power) to wells most recent oh i don't know about skwak box etc i'm not sure what's more disgusting. There are a few 'it's only to be expected' over the last few weeks and shedloads of blind-eying whataboutery as well i suppose. That used to be called appeasing racism.

 

[butchersapron]

There isn't very many of them though. The votes lost by them leaving (and who else would they vote for anyway?) would be - at most - tens to hundreds in any given constituency. absolutely fuck all.

Poor green's though...

 

[kebabking]

Nice to see you back. Place has been a bit tame without you.

 

[butchersapron]

Nice to see you back. Place has been a bit tame without you.

Thank you.

There must be some wedge issue on which we can force these freaks to inscribe upon their banner we are not anti-zionists but anti-semites? And if we can't, then why not?

 

[butchersapron]

Probably time to do the same. I spend too long confirming what I already know about the loons. Very disappointed with the RMT though, especially Hedley and Dempsey

They're the main conduit and megaphone for this shit in the london left union scene. The have been for years. They are not just conjuncturely in it, they fucking are it. Stalinist assadist conspiracy theory sometimes with the fascists identity politics goombahs.

 

[Favelado]

Stalinist assadist conspiracy theory sometimes with the fascists identity politics goombahs.

This is a GZA lyric.

 

[butchersapron]

This is a GZA lyric.

Don't grass i up!

 

[19force8]

From 1868's insertion of bred in the bone swp sectarianism defend the left/CW model of this into real life labour branch or CLP meetings (that's CW the right wing thatcherite privatiser when in power) to wells most recent oh i don't know about skwak box etc i'm not sure what's more disgusting. There are a few 'it's only to be expected' over the last few weeks and shedloads of blind-eying whataboutery as well i suppose. That used to be called appeasing racism.

Oh dear, back with the passive aggressive bullshit too.

Yawn

 

[butchersapron]

Oh dear, back with the passive aggressive bullshit too.

Yawn

When did you join the party?

 

[19force8]

When did you join the party?

Who are you talking to?

Me or 1868?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

So Facebook's former Chief Security Officer (now Prof at and Director of Stanford Uni's Internet Observatory) often has some interesting stuff to say about political disinformation campaigns.

He's mainly talking about attributing disinformation campaigns in the context of Russia in the linked article, but perhaps some of it is worth considering in this case?

The truth is, the vast majority of political disinformation is coming from semi-professionals who are making money pushing disinformation, who are also politically motivated and have some kind of relationship to the political actors themselves. The vast majority of the time, it is not a foreign influence campaign. And that should be the automatic assumption: it is not James Bond.

Journalists are there on all kinds of other things. If you read a local newspaper story about a woman disappearing in the middle of the night, it’s probably not a human trafficking ring. It’s probably the husband. Local crime reporters understand this, so they don’t write, ‘This is probably a Ukrainian human trafficking ring’, as the first assumption in the story.

<snip>

But this is only going to get harder because the truth is, if you look globally at disinformation campaigns, the median victim of a professional disinformation campaign is a victim of a campaign being run by their own government against the domestic audience. If you look at India, the disinformation is not being driven by foreign adversaries, it’s being driven by the Indian political parties. That makes the attribution question very complicated for the tech companies. So that’s something the media needs to keep in mind.

Facebook’s ex-security chief on disinformation campaigns: 'The sexiest explanation is usually not true'

The first challenge is figuring out the type of entity to which we are attributing responsibility. This is harder than it might sound. It is standard for both traditional security attacks and information operations to be conducted using commercial infrastructure or computers belonging to innocent people that have been compromised. As a result, simple techniques like blaming the owner of an IP address that was used to register a malicious account usually aren’t sufficient to accurately determine who’s responsible.

Instead, we try to:

• Link suspicious activity to the individual or group with primary operational responsibility for the malicious action. We can then potentially associate multiple campaigns to one set of actors, study how they abuse our systems, and take appropriate countermeasures.
• Tie a specific actor to a real-world sponsor. This could include a political organization, a nation-state, or a non-political entity.

The relationship between malicious actors and real-world sponsors can be difficult to determine in practice, especially for activity sponsored by nation-states.

Hard Questions: How Does Facebook Investigate Cyber Threats and Information Operations? | Facebook Newsroom

More complex still when you potentially have multiple sponsors (in this case various groups or organisations who would like to damage Labour's left for their own particular reasons) getting behind (to varying degrees of attributeability perhaps) a broadly similar line of attack that's apparently being picked up and pushed by multiple sets of primary actors.

 

[teqniq]

Weekly news roundup which starts with Labour and antisemitism which makes some good points some of which I have seen before, particularly the anti imperialism thing.

BobFromBrockley: Rain in July

 

[Rivendelboy]

Weekly news roundup which starts with Labour and antisemitism which makes some good points some of which I have seen before, particularly the anti imperialism thing.

BobFromBrockley: Rain in July

I'm not seeing how Corbyn himself is antisemitic.

 

[teqniq]

It doesn't say that.

 

[killer b]

incredible stuff really. Third paragraph in:

The Panorama documentary on Labour antisemitism stopped short of making the claim that Corbyn is personally antisemitic, but despite that many defenders of Corbyn respond to it by insisting that that he isn't

literally the first reply to a post about the article here:

I'm not seeing how Corbyn himself is antisemitic.

is this some kind of satire Rivendelboy?

 

[teqniq]

Lol, maybe it is. I just thought maybe they didn't read it properly.

 

[8ball]

I'm not seeing how Corbyn himself is antisemitic.

Repeat it enough times and it's true.

 

[Rivendelboy]

It doesn't say that.

I'm not sure what it's saying then

 

[Rivendelboy]

incredible stuff really. Third paragraph in:

The Panorama documentary on Labour antisemitism stopped short of making the claim that Corbyn is personally antisemitic, but despite that many defenders of Corbyn respond to it by insisting that that he isn't

literally the first reply to a post about the article here:



is this some kind of satire Rivendelboy?

Because I'm having trouble understanding the truth of all this.

Instead of asking stupid loaded questions, perhaps you could help me. This issue is a complete clusterfuck

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Weekly news roundup which starts with Labour and antisemitism which makes some good points some of which I have seen before, particularly the anti imperialism thing.

BobFromBrockley: Rain in July

Bob from Brockley - a former cheerleader for the Afghan and Iraq wars doesn’t like anti-imperialism? There’s a surprise.