Labour & Anti-Semitism.
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
teqniq
DisMembered
Lol, investigation of what I wonder?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Given the easy access to cheap booze in the Palace of Westminster that's no surprise
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
teqniq
DisMembered
Yeah that's fair enough. I'd forgotten about that page. Nevertheless I object to the Board of Deputies (for it would appear to be most likely them) getting the letter pulled in what is effectively censorship. So I went looking for cached pages, screenshotted it and put it up on general principles.
Geri
wasn't born to follow
Geri
wasn't born to follow
I am sceptical about the one from "Bristol CLP" as there is no such CLP. I also googled his name and couldn't find any trace of him.
The other Bristol ones I do know. One was a Facebook friend until I unfriended him, the other is a lawyer who is a friend of several friends. Quite a decent bloke by all accounts so I was a bit surprised to see his name there.
The Chris Williamson faithful won't be persuaded it seems.
Not from my experience (on twitter ffs)
I don't know how this situation resolves without a split
Not from my experience (on twitter ffs)
I don't know how this situation resolves without a split
I've shared that with a few peeps on Twitter.
They aren't really interested, I'm not sure how they are going to be persuaded
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
The lawyer seems to have been doxxed just hours ago.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, I had a conversation with a friend last week about this. He's critically supportive of Labour from a long term socialist position, and is mostly pretty sensible, but just can't see this as anything other than an attack on those politics, and he won't hear a bad word about WIlliamson. It's really similar as arguing with anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists, they just have this blind spot that is impossible to breach.
Geri
wasn't born to follow
So I see!
It's not similar, it is arguing with conspiracy theorists. I don't think these are people who hate on jews per se, but who believe in a particular worldview that reduces Jewish place or history in society to simplistic and thus antisemitic levels: "jews run the media" for example. People who look at complex world events and try to understand systems of power and the players involved and come away with a simplistic narrative. Chris is the wronged party therefore he can do no wrong. But it can both be true that Chris has been wronged - in the case of his labour apologetic statement has been misrepresented - and has done wrong - shitty voting record, retweeting awful people.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Indeed, I was thinking that as I typed!
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
There is a clear distinction between believing ‘the Jews run the media’ bollocks and recognising that there are those in the media disingenuously using anti-semitism as a stick to beat Corbyn with. Unfortunately it’s the likes of Williamson giving those critics plenty of ammunition.
& the defensiveness/anger of some Labour supporters faced with these attacks Is understandable when for example 40% of Tory members in a recent poll said they’d like Britain to have a smaller Muslim population (which maybe needed following up with the question ‘how?’) & all the other racist bollocks the other party seems to get a pass for. But y’know, get your fucking house in order and have a think about what you say and how it might sound.
& the defensiveness/anger of some Labour supporters faced with these attacks Is understandable when for example 40% of Tory members in a recent poll said they’d like Britain to have a smaller Muslim population (which maybe needed following up with the question ‘how?’) & all the other racist bollocks the other party seems to get a pass for. But y’know, get your fucking house in order and have a think about what you say and how it might sound.
A Williamson crank walkout would be of massive benefit to the Labour Party. It'd be win/win for them.
Of course. To put (IMHO) all this very simply: there is wrong on both sides. There are bad faith actors on both sides. I don't believe Chris is racist in the "i hate the jews and want them to suffer" sense (which isn't the totality of that which qualifies as antisemitism of course), but he does support awful people and their ideas. Perhaps naively, who knows.
Conversely there are those who correctly speak out against the support for holocaust deniers and antisemites etc who also use antisemitism to fulfill their anti-corbyn agenda.
In other words, it's as muddy as fuck.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
This is how witch hunts work. They don't target the pure and unimpeachable. They go after those with a sketchy record, the oddballs, the chancers, etc. It's the reason we want our union secretaries and stewards to keep their noses clean.
Another way they work is to cause people to circle the wagons. Members know the Labour Party isn't institutionally anti-Semitic (although it has been in the past) and that the leader isn't an anti-Semite (although they have been in the past). So when they hear these accusations being run almost daily (in fact hourly on Twitter) they start pushing back.
There is a sense out there that throwing more members on the bonfire won't stop the witch hunt. That a line has to be drawn and defended or the party will be torn apart.
It may be unfortunate that the line has to be Williamson (him being a bit of a cunt an' all), but with the case against him being so weak and the political interference so blatant it would represent a massive defeat for the left in Labour for him to be expelled.
I say "the left" because despite some of his record his was the loudest voice calling for mandatory reselection of MPs. Without which (imo) the whole Corbyn project will be destroyed by the 5th columnists in the PLP. That's assuming Labour can even get a majority.
It depends on the numbers. They are largely all Corbyn supporters: would they go on to vote Labour in a GE if they were booted out?
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
It's also instructive that during the recent reinstate/unreinstate kerfuffle many of the talking head types were "Williamson's a cunt and deserves it." Then once Watson [spit] got his way the knives came out for them too. For instance Ash Sarkar being called an anti-Semite on Twitter.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Minimal negative impact electorally (crank vote not significant and thinly spread) and as you say would demonstrate labour taking seriously so win win. Let them run witchhunt road shows in community centres.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Seen Novara and Sarkar really get it on social media (shown I hasten to add, I avoid that horror generally) for not supporting Williamson (despite their earlier fawning for him), with plenty saying they were now on the wrong side. The Canary have predictably been supportive of Williamson still.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Of course it does. That's witch hunts for you - there will always another witch until either you cede control of the party or fight back. When you do draw the line there will be some who don't like that particular witch. But the alternative is watching a bunch of cunts like Watson, Hodge, etc, etc sabotage the party week in week out
cantsin
Well-Known Member
yep, which was f*cking disgraceful - jewish lefty, bit obsessed, too close to the LLV uber cranks to be trusted in any political sense, but for the Gnasher / 12 Scouts crew to turn his life upside down cos they disagreed with his politics is just bollocks - yet again they're simply arming the cranks to the teeth, whilst achieving nothing in the actual fight against AS - fuck them
Williamson is a wrecker who should be fucked off. Wherever the line is to be drawn, it shouldn't be under him.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Absolutely, yet many of those same critics (of the Novara crew) were sympathetic (with a hint of told you so) when they came under attack from the luvvy brigade.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Preferably through him.
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