Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[belboid]

Personally, I think that any organisation adopting any definition of racism that refers to the actions of a state holds obvious pitfalls.

Of course the definition makes no such mention, it's just in the stupid examples.

 

[brogdale]

Of course the definition makes no such mention, it's just in the stupid examples.

Yep, but the whole thing was adopted in full.

 

[gsv]

Don't blame me for your words, sunshine. You are the one claiming that me criticising apartheid Israel is me condemning jews. You've come out with the usual lazy whatabouterries and not actually responded to any of the criticisms or points being made. You're being very dishonest, which is why you have nothing left but to whine 'ooh you're a racist'. For condemning apartheid

"Israel is culpable for an awful lot of ethno-vile shit" – me, a whole page back
I don't duck questions about Israel and I don't think anyone's asked me my views on apartheid. You'll clearly impute whatever you want and play a soundbite game. You're comfortable in your views...which are clearly racist. Your self-image insists that you're not, but that doesn't change your behaviour.

 

[belboid]

"Israel is culpable for an awful lot of ethno-vile shit" – me, a whole page back
I don't duck questions about Israel and I don't think anyone's asked me my views on apartheid. You'll clearly impute whatever you want and play a soundbite game. You're comfortable in your views...which are clearly racist. Your self-image insists that you're not, but that doesn't change your behaviour.

Repeating things doesn't make them true. And making things up doesn't make them true either. i have no idea if you are actually a supporter of Israeli apartheid (which didn't start with the last atrocity or the last invasion of Gaza, it is the premise for the Israeli states existence), or just a bit thick. Either way, you are the one claiming the opposing a specific state is racist, whilst at the same time claiming that conflating that state with that ethnicity/religion is racist. You can't have it both ways.

 

[belboid]

Yep, but the whole thing was adopted in full.

Pretty much only by the Labour Party, the vast majority of other organisations that have done so have only gone with the actual definition bit.

 

[brogdale]

Pretty much only by the Labour Party, the vast majority of other organisations that have done so have only gone with the actual definition bit.

Not according to this:

 

[Pickman's model]

Repeating things doesn't make them true. And making things up doesn't make them true either. i have no idea if you are actually a supporter of Israeli apartheid (which didn't start with the last atrocity or the last invasion of Gaza, it is the premise for the Israeli states existence), or just a bit thick. Either way, you are the one claiming the opposing a specific state is racist, whilst at the same time claiming that conflating that state with that ethnicity/religion is racist. You can't have it both ways.

Not to mention it's nothing to do with him guv despite his it's our homeland

 

[belboid]

Not according to this:

View attachment 236778

fair play, I forgot they existed

 

[bimble]

gsv and belboid Do you think there’s even the tiniest chance you’ll change each others minds or crowbar a new thought into the other one’s brain? Because if not why do this shit same old dance. It actually makes things a little bit worse every time, in a real way, imo.

 

[brogdale]

fair play, I forgot they existed

Nah, not just them, sorry (bad cropping) that top refers to the Tories.

 

[gsv]

I'm not going to convince him of anything. He's going to selectively read anything I write and twist it as far as necessary to fit his narrative. I'm not going to bother.

 

[belboid]

gsv and belboid Do you think there’s even the tiniest chance you’ll change each others minds or crowbar a new thought into the other one’s brain? Because if not why do this shit same old dance. It actually makes things a little bit worse every time, in a real way, imo.

I doubt I will change gsv's view (tho we can and should always hope), but we are having this discussion in front of an audience. It is only through having an argument in full that we can lay out a complete(r) picture, by asking questions we can tease out the issues and questions involved in our 'headline' views.

 

[belboid]

I'm not going to convince him of anything. He's going to selectively read anything I write and twist it as far as necessary to fit his narrative. I'm not going to bother.

Please point out and make your case for where I have done this. You keep just making broad statements (which I disagree with) and thinking you've made an argument. But you haven't.

 

[gsv]

Not playing your game belboid.

 

[belboid]

I'm not playing a game, if that is how you see it, you should go away and have a word with yourself.

 

[gsv]

Empty rhetoric

 

[brogdale]

Fucking hell, this i so shit I'm going to listen to Johnson's pressa

 

[Pickman's model]

Fucking hell, this i so shit I'm going to listen to Johnson's pressa

Desperate times

 

[two sheds]

It's a respectable site.
Peter Oborne is a well known and respected journalist in the mainstream media though he is unusual in being principled and forthright.
He's also an old school Tory and cricket fanatic.
His twitter feed is interesting.

I'd love to believe you (and a good first post ) but my only problem is I'd hate to forward your link on, only to be told there was something dodgy elsewhere on your site.

 

[rummo]

I'd love to believe you (and a good first post ) but my only problem is I'd hate to forward your link on, only to be told there was something dodgy elsewhere on your site.

It's not my link and it's not my site.

You could maybe do an internet search for the site or the two journalists of that article if you are genuinely concerned.

It's instructive though how fear and paranoia can be used curtail discussion and enquiry into certain topics.

Who benefits from that?

 

[danny la rouge]

Who benefits from that?

Is it Jews?

 

[teqniq]

I'd love to believe you (and a good first post ) but my only problem is I'd hate to forward your link on, only to be told there was something dodgy elsewhere on your site.

They're talking about the middle east eye piece that I linked to and wot you read.

 

[belboid]

I'd love to believe you (and a good first post ) but my only problem is I'd hate to forward your link on, only to be told there was something dodgy elsewhere on your site.

Is there a single site in the world that doesn’t have something dodgy on it somewhere?

 

[two sheds]

They're talking about the middle east eye piece that I linked to and wot you read.

I know I just copied your post (Yeah it seems ok - my only problem isI'd hate to forward the link on, only to be told there was something dodgy elsewhere on their site. ) in reply

It's their first post so somebody coming on saying "it's good" doesn't help if we don't know who they are.

Sorry rummo it was a (poor) joke rather than trying to get at you - as I say it was a good first post.

 

[two sheds]

Is there a single site in the world that doesn’t have something dodgy on it somewhere?

Indeed, try linking to the Sun or Mail on here though

 

[rummo]

Is it Jews?

No, it's not Jews. It's those, Jews and non Jews, who have weaponised anti Semitism to shut down discussion or criticism of the excesses of Zionism in particular, and, more generally in this context, the sort of socialism that Jeremy Corbyn represents.

If you are struggling with this try to remember that not all Jews are Zionists and most Zionists aren't Jews.

 

[two sheds]

most Zionists aren't Jews.

I'm with you up until that point. Are they not? Christians in the USA for example do you mean?

 

[danny la rouge]

If you are struggling with this try

If you’re here long enough to get to know me, I still won’t let you talk to me like that.

 

[two sheds]

If you’re here long enough to get to know me, I still won’t let you talk to me like that.

Be fair, you did start off with

Is it Jews?

 

[rummo]

I'm with you up until that point. Are they not? Christians in the USA for example do you mean?

It's everyone, whatever their nationality, ethnicity or religious affinity who supports the concept of Zionism, which is a political belief, that's all it is.

How many people in the UK support Zionism? How many of them are Jewish? Do the math. Most Zionists are not Jewish.