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Labour & Anti-Semitism.

Cloo said:
ignoring what its loss might mean to individuals, non-politically,
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Is there such a thing?
I get your point re its loss as a community resource, but even then 'apolitical' community coverage is placed within the context of other overtly political content, and becomes deeply politicised by association. That's not just an unintended consequence either, that's part of creating a politically coherent "Jewish community".
 
Cloo said:
So today the Jewish Chronicle went into liquidation after nearly 180 years of operation - I found out because it was trending on Twitter. The Jewish Chronicle to go into liquidation Most of the first tweets about it were people braying about how it was a nasty Zionist rag, viciously anti-Corbyn (and it was, tbf - the last editor Stephen Pollard had taken it down a horrible, paranoid, right-wing path). Although I was not a fan of its politics I found it rather gross people making the JC about them and their politics and ignoring what its loss might mean to individuals, non-politically, as a community resource keeping people in touch with what was going around the country and world.
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As a Jew who feels 100% alienated from publications like the Jewish Chronicle, I couldn't care less about its demise. I can't see the racist, rightwing, reactionary garbage it pumps out as anything other than detrimental to jews and everyone else. I used to read and enjoy 'Jewish Socialist' many years ago.
 
I mean, pretending there wasn't an internal war with the party bureaucracy doing everything it could to undermine the pro-corbyn faction (always a minority) including cynical exploitation of antisemitism to the detriment of the overall wellbeing of british jews is deeply dishonest, just as its deeply dishonest to pretend there isn't a massive toxic streak of antisemitism in the left. So really the above post is just as cunty as the weirdos who scream conspiracy and bang on about the lobby
 
Proper Tidy said:
I mean, pretending there wasn't an internal war with the party bureaucracy doing everything it could to undermine the pro-corbyn faction (always a minority) including cynical exploitation of antisemitism to the detriment of the overall wellbeing of british jews is deeply dishonest, just as its deeply dishonest to pretend there isn't a massive toxic streak of antisemitism in the left. So really the above post is just as cunty as the weirdos who scream conspiracy and bang on about the lobby
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What now?
 
Ironically (if that’s the right word) the JCs demise means it will be a it harder to trAck the activities of the nefarious Community Security Trust. I say nefarious not because it plays a role defending Jews from anti-semitism, which is admirable. Rather, it is nefarious because in order to do so the CST has struck a Faustian bargain with the Met Police in particular, running off the books infiltration operations in part on the Mets behalf.
 
bimble said:
Same report that they’re binning does have this bit in it as well, which is obvs not being picked out by the people it’s probably intended for.

View attachment 206230
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Which makes the report even more of a liability for the anti-Corbynites - it doesn’t deny anti-Semitism in the party, but it finds that their faction were the ones who primarily sabotaged its investigation! That’s not the narrative thats supposed to emerge...
 
Does it Jeff Robinson ? I dunno. Can you explain how the anti-corb lot sabotaged the investigation of antisemitism cases - Do you mean they hid evidence of it or downplayed it or gave him and his team treacherous advice? Honestly don’t get what you mean.
All the bits I’ve seen just prove (shock surprise!) that the centrists hated the corbynites but they don’t say what you are suggesting.
 
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bimble said:
Does it Jeff Robinson ? I dunno. Can you explain how the anti-corb lot sabotaged the investigation of antisemitism cases - Do you mean they hid evidence of it or downplayed it or gave him and his team treacherous advice? Honestly don’t get what you mean.
All the bits I’ve seen just prove (shock surprise!) that the centrists hated the corbynites but they don’t say what you are suggesting.
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The report states that the party bureaucracy failed to act upon or deal with reports of antisemitism and failed to make the political leaders of the party aware of the scale. The only motivation for this is so that those political leaders are then accused of failing to take it seriously or deal with it. I've no idea if the report is accurate, although it chimes with what I would have expected. See:

Screenshot_20200412-101617~2.png
This shouldn't be a mutually exclusive position to also thinking the left (specifically the anti imperialist left from which the then political leadership of labour was mostly drawn) did and does have a problem with antisemitism. That's why the internal opposition (a majority of the bureaucracy and elected politicians) saw their opportunity in it, one which they exploited at the expense of the perceived safety and security jewish people feel. Plague on both their houses tbh
 
Proper Tidy said:
The report states that the party bureaucracy failed to act upon or deal with reports of antisemitism and failed to make the political leaders of the party aware of the scale. The only motivation for this is so that those political leaders are then accused of failing to take it seriously or deal with it. I've no idea if the report is accurate, although it chimes with what I would have expected. See:

View attachment 206240
This shouldn't be a mutually exclusive position to also thinking the left (specifically the anti imperialist left from which the then political leadership of labour was mostly drawn) did and does have a problem with antisemitism. That's why the internal opposition (a majority of the bureaucracy and elected politicians) saw their opportunity in it, one which they exploited at the expense of the perceived safety and security jewish people feel. Plague on both their houses tbh
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I don’t doubt there was some shady shit from these snakes (and that should be aired) but the idea that they could hide the scale of the issue is a bit challenging. The leadership merely needed (prompted by vicious headlines) to look at Twitter to see what certain factions were up to. The line that (despite continual scandal) we relied totally on the word of people we always suspected were undermining us, is going to be hard to take far.

But Labour Party members have a right to know what people whose wages were paid by their subs were up to and how any attempts to undermine the leadership were carried out.
 
Mr Moose said:
I don’t doubt there was some shady shit from these snakes (and that should be aired) but the idea that they could hide the scale of the issue is a bit challenging. The leadership merely needed (prompted by vicious headlines) to look at Twitter to see what certain factions were up to. The line that (despite continual scandal) we relied totally on the word of people we always suspected were undermining us, is going to be hard to take far.

But Labour Party members have a right to know what people whose wages were paid by their subs were up to and how any attempts to undermine the leadership were carried out.
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Yeah agree that you have to be wilfully blind to not see the conspiracism and antisemitism of a strand of corbyn support, zio and all that, the gallowayites. Same lot who were obsessed with skrpil.

But in the specifics of it - how many cases reported, how many resulted in disciplinary/expulsion, how quickly etc - then misleading data from the officials will compound with that wilful blindness and the siege mentality defensiveness which is how you get the dismissal and minimisation and we're dealing with the small number of cases stuff. Probably, I dunno. None of them come out of it looking good tbf
 
What is the scale of the problem? I've seen plenty of evidence of it online but that doesn't tell me very much at all about the scale of the problem, just that it exists.

By the way I doubt Starmer is going to be able to wave a magic wand and get rid of it. I've always thought the real problem was people ignoring it, or not even seeing it for what it is.
 
Whatever the lawyers or even leadership say, I really cannot see how the EHRC don't now get hold of this document given its clear relevance to the inquiry its running (either as evidence of the then leaderships efforts to dissemble or as bad character stuff for the other side).
 
Bimble you have got it in one! And shows how utterly wrong fascists are when they see Met Police bigwigs attending BDBJ functions as evidence they are under the Board’s thumb. Whereas it is more gratitude for services rendered (by the CST).
 
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agricola said:
Whatever the lawyers or even leadership say, I really cannot see how the EHRC don't now get hold of this document given its clear relevance to the inquiry its running (either as evidence of the then leaderships efforts to dissemble or as bad character stuff for the other side).
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Given how many copies are floating around freely already, I imagine they already have it.
 
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