Ken scores Oil off Chavez for London Buses!

[TeeJay]

...Venezuela is the USA's cheapest and most convenient supplier of oil...

Why is it the US's "cheapest" supplier? Does Chavez sell Venezeulan oil to the US at less than the global market price?

...provider of its most cost effective oil refineries.

I thought the Venezeulan oil industry was nationalised - why don't they refine their own oil?

Of course I should go and check these details for myself, if it made any real difference to things, but then general point emerges from the bullshit and hyperbole: the reality is Chavez is not really any kind of anti-capitalist yet his posturing and rhetoric take in loads of self-declared radicals and left wingers.

He is in reality far more middle-class, business-friendly and pro-market, but politically he is also a one-man show who needs to constantly boost his own popularity and image and needs to warp himself up in some kind of bogus 'ideology'.

It is really sad to see so many people swallowing the bullshit - and even more so that they do so on the basis of bribes (cheap oil) and bullshit grandstanding and rhetoric rather than with any actual reference to what is (and isn't) happening on the ground in Venezeula.

It's like the leftwing political equivalent of pop-fans, creaming over the latest shitty boy-band - ie utterly pathetic.

 

[Fruitloop]

The marmite ones are fucking horrible.

Oh, sorry

 

[TeeJay]

Oh please, spare me your whining. No ones getting sent to any labour camps. If you can't bear to have your political standpoint harshly criticised without having a wee hissyfit then maybe the P & P section isn't for you.

Theres a thread on mini chedders at the moment, maybe that would be more suited to a sensitive soul like yourself?

Hey fuckwit, go and fuck yourself you stupid cunt.

You're the one whining on this thread, and the one who started getting personal instead of debating the pros and cons of the "oil-for-bullshit" deal.

I don't object to you criticising any viewpoint, but a cretinous cunt like you can't even mamange a coherent critique of anything, you just launch into a load of utter dribbling shite, as always.

If anything p&p shouldn't be for the likes of you, since an extremist left-wing version of a neo-fascist like you should have its own forum like st******t.

As much as it is an occasional distraction to tear your pathetic crap to bits and show you up for the bollcock-sputing waste of space that you are, ultimately it doesn't further political debate as you are entirely irrelevant in the real world anyway.

So go take your mini-cheddars and suppositorise.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I'm trying to remember if I ever had any respect for your political views...

...in the meantime, I might as well ask what this post contributes to the thread, and how it is relevant to "oil for bullshit" deal being proposed.

I'd ask the same about your post.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Tone it down please, less of the personal attack stuff.

 

[TeeJay]

I'd ask the same about your post.

If you mean #58 then it is merely making the point that asking a question about how the oill-for-bullshit deal benefits Venezeulans, who are c.95% poorer than almost all Londoners, rich *and* poor, doesn't make me a member of the conservative party or part of a rightwing political 'bloc'. Trying to suggest it does is a feeble way of shutting down valid debate - a reverse use of a 'reds-under-the-bed' crap.

So, what about yours?

 

[JoePolitix]

Why is it the US's "cheapest" supplier? Does Chavez sell Venezeulan oil to the US at less than the global market price?I thought the Venezeulan oil industry was nationalised - why don't they refine their own oil?

Venezuelan oil generally sells for less than many other types of oil due to its high viscosity and sulfur content, on top of that you have to consider the logical convenience of Venezuelan oil when compared to oil from the gulf.

Venezuela does refine its oil but its refineries and service stations (CITGO) are based in the USA because this is the most cost-effective and logical spot for them to be.

Of course I should go and check these details for myself, if it made any real difference to things, but then general point emerges from the bullshit and hyperbole: the reality is Chavez is not really any kind of anti-capitalist yet his posturing and rhetoric take in loads of self-declared radicals and left wingers.

He is in reality far more middle-class, business-friendly and pro-market, but politically he is also a one-man show who needs to constantly boost his own popularity and image and needs to warp himself up in some kind of bogus 'ideology'.

It is really sad to see so many people swallowing the bullshit - and even more so that they do so on the basis of bribes (cheap oil) and bullshit grandstanding and rhetoric rather than with any actual reference to what is (and isn't) happening on the ground in Venezeula.

It's like the leftwing political equivalent of pop-fans, creaming over the latest shitty boy-band - ie utterly pathetic.

We cant all be as wadical as rightwing liberals like you Teejay. (i don't like this icon - but you truely deserve it).

Yes the Venezuelan government makes money from the world market (how else exactly?) - but the question is what are they doing with the money? They're investing in social spending and promoting popular democracy whilst rejecting neo-liberalism - probably why Chavez has mass support among the Venezuelan poor.

The fact that you don't like this, and you don't like that Chavez is allowing poor Londoners to have cheaper access to public transport is probably a blessing.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

If you mean #58 then it is merely making the point that asking a question about how the oill-for-bullshit deal benefits Venezeulans, who are c.95% poorer than almost all Londoners, rich *and* poor, doesn't make me a member of the conservative party or part of a rightwing political 'bloc'. Trying to suggest it does is a feeble way of shutting down valid debate - a reverse use of a 'reds-under-the-bed' crap.

So, what about yours?

Nope I meant about the post I quoted. Fact is instead of making a constructive contribution as usual you've feigned patience then let rip with some ultra pedantry fisking, the consequence is the near trolling of a very interesting thread.

 

[TeeJay]

Nope I meant about the post I quoted. Fact is instead of making a constructive contribution as usual you've feigned patience then let rip with some ultra pedantry fisking, the consequence is the near trolling of a very interesting thread.

So get on with talking about Venezeula then.

 

[DownwardDog]

Venezuela does refine its oil but its refineries and service stations (CITGO) are based in the USA because this is the most cost-effective and logical spot for them to be.

According to the FT this morning PDVSA is making a token effort to diversify its refining capacity. But the company is being starved of cash to fund social schemes of varying degrees of whackiness, Sukhoi fighters, etc. so it's badly underinvesting in exploration, extraction and refining capability. Also, HC sacked the strikers/saboteurs (choose your nomenclature as your political prejudices dictate) and replaced them with retreaded military personnel with no oil business experience so I am sanguine about PDVSA's long term prospects as a cash cow.

 

[free spirit]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Venezuela has vast amounts of oil reserves that are only economic to open up if oil stays at over 50 dollars per barrel in the long term.

As I understand it global oil production is pretty much at peak production globally, with the majority of the middle eastern oil producers (excluding Iraq) operating at or close to peak capacity, which basically means that a country with the oil reserves and production capacity of venezuela can in effect influence the global price by restricting it's production.

The reduction in venezuela's oil output since the purge of strike leaders etc. has without doubt resulted from the loss of expertise within the industry, but I reckon this could well have been something Charvez was happy to allow to happen as it would guarantee that oil prices would remain high, and potentially high enough to seriously consider opening up the more expensive oil fields. Essentially while the oil price remains high, venezuela is making huge profits from the oil it sells, so while it may be selling 30% less oil, it'll be making way more money at current oil prices than it was a few years ago at higher production levels when the price was half what it is now (figures a guess coz I can't be arsed researching it fully - anyone else is welcome).

There is also the political point that high oil prices benefit venezuela and harm the US, so by helping maintain artificially high oil prices, charvez is waging an economic war against the US.

As to the London deal. I guess it depends on how much advertising he's bought on the busses with his oil. It seems quite a sensible way of raising the profile of venezuela (for tourism and investment) in one of the worlds financial and political capitals to me.

Why deal direct in oil? well it cuts out the vagueries of the international money markets. Why should they need to use US currency as a trading medium when they can deal direct?

Obviously there's a fair amount of political grandstanding from ken and charvez in this whole thing, but I can see how it could potentially make good economic sense too.

 

[JoePolitix]

Due to a number of circumstances between the end of 2001 and February 2003 - the bosses' lockout (not a strike - it didn't have the backing of the workforce) in December 2001; the coup d'etat promoted by the CIA in April 2002; conspiracies and the oil sabotage between the last quarter of 2002 and February 2003 - understandably the economy was crippeled and oil production slumped.

However, since that period the economy has been growing steadily and oil production is back to what it was. Its a credit to Chavez that in 1999 he inherited the most inefficient company of its nature in the whole of Latin America and now it provides nearly $4 billion in direct annual funding for the ambitious social projects the Venezuelan government is promoting not filling the back pockets of "experienced" corrupt bureaucrats in the oil sector.

 

[JoePolitix]

The reduction in venezuela's oil output since the purge of strike leaders etc. has without doubt resulted from the loss of expertise within the industry, but I reckon this could well have been something Charvez was happy to allow to happen as it would guarantee that oil prices would remain high, and potentially high enough to seriously consider opening up the more expensive oil fields. Essentially while the oil price remains high, venezuela is making huge profits from the oil it sells, so while it may be selling 30% less oil, it'll be making way more money at current oil prices than it was a few years ago at higher production levels when the price was half what it is now (figures a guess coz I can't be arsed researching it fully - anyone else is welcome).

This doesn't hold. In March 2003 Chavez purged the PDVSA of 18,000 bureaucrats and by April of that same year oil production was back to its peak: over 3 million barrels a day.

These undeniable stats would appear to completely vindicate Chavez's decision to get rid of the paracites in the oil sector.

 

[tbaldwin]

I thought it was a good thing...Im not a big fan of KL but he has always done some goos things....But i think Teejay has a good question and one that hasnt been answered on this thread.

 

[ska invita]

Teejay has a good question and one that hasnt been answered on this thread.

That question is "how does the oill-for-bullshit deal benefits Venezeulans"? , right?

Well, three-fold.

First London advertises Venezueala in a positive light, helps combat propaganda against it (a degree of protection agaisnt invasion) and boosts needed tourism to the country, which translates to money for the economy, which translates to good for the country overall.

Second, maybe Ken can bring some expertise and share his knowledge - he has been running a major city for twenty years now (GLC included).

Third, they are still selling oil to London at a profit - this is an additional sale, and therefore more money for the state, and therefore more money to spend on the people.

 

[TeeJay]

That question is "how does the oill-for-bullshit deal benefits Venezeulans"? , right?

Well, three-fold.

First London advertises Venezueala in a positive light, helps combat propaganda against it (a degree of protection agaisnt invasion) and boosts needed tourism to the country, which translates to money for the economy, which translates to good for the country overall.

Second, maybe Ken can bring some expertise and share his knowledge - he has been running a major city for twenty years now (GLC included).

Third, they are still selling oil to London at a profit - this is an additional sale, and therefore more money for the state, and therefore more money to spend on the people.

Advertising is pretty pointless and meaningless for poor Venezuelans and I while doubt Venezuela is in danger of being invaded, I also doubt that a bit of advertising would change that in any case. Tourism is far more dependent on good feedback from other people travelling there and good reviews, along with good prices and good facilities. All these are far more dependent on investment in tourist infrastructure than on advertising.

Ken advisers will not have faced anything like the problems and issues faced in places like Caracus, I dobt that many are fluent in Spanish or have much of an understanding of venezeulan laws and government systems and agencies. In any case they will simply go there for a few weeks and write a report which then sits on a shelf somewhere. They are not like the Cuban doctors who can actually treat people and stay there full time.

Foinally you say they are selling this oil to London - yet several people have said that this money will be swapped and no money will change hands.

Giving away national assets in exchange for inappropriate assistance and for far less than it would fetch if sold on the oil markets is an inexcusable transfer of welath from the poor to the rich. Chavez can get away with this because there are a lack of attractive political alternatives to him and because the President there has discretionary powers over large chuncks of oil revenue that noone can question or examine. IMO Chavez is doing this for his own purposes - to benefit himself and to grandstand at the expense of his own citizens, although I am willing to have someone give a decent explanation of why poor citizens should have their national assets used to pay for pointless 'advice' from London bureaucrats, insteda of sold and the money used to invest in crumbling infrastructure and other public goods.

 

[kyser_soze]

Isn't it amazing - a socialist Prez who is taking seriously that whole line about the w/c being a global community and helping to subsidise a service that is used mainly by the w/c and poorer communities in London - an example of solidarity that actually does something beyond offering platitudes - and it gets slagged off by a muppet tory(ies) asking 'what do the w/c in Venzuala get from it.'

On the 'value' of the consultants...believe it or not, London has a huge amount of expertise in managing and running public services, policing hugely divergent communities etc, and since Chavez is currently effectively rebuillding civic society in Venezuela atm I'm fairy sure that such people will be of value to the people of Venezuela.

Now I'm no cheerleader for Chavez, but shit the man has embarked on a massive national educational drive that's got millions more people reading and funding it with money from oil (which is the econmics of it - he can only keep funding the current social programmes while oil is over $50 a barrel).

 

[JoePolitix]

Advertising is pretty pointless and meaningless for poor Venezuelans and I while doubt Venezuela is in danger of being invaded, I also doubt that a bit of advertising would change that in any case. Tourism is far more dependent on good feedback from other people travelling there and good reviews, along with good prices and good facilities. All these are far more dependent on investment in tourist infrastructure than on advertising.

Ken advisers will not have faced anything like the problems and issues faced in places like Caracus, I dobt that many are fluent in Spanish or have much of an understanding of venezeulan laws and government systems and agencies. In any case they will simply go there for a few weeks and write a report which then sits on a shelf somewhere. They are not like the Cuban doctors who can actually treat people and stay there full time.

Foinally you say they are selling this oil to London - yet several people have said that this money will be swapped and no money will change hands.

Giving away national assets in exchange for inappropriate assistance and for far less than it would fetch if sold on the oil markets is an inexcusable transfer of welath from the poor to the rich. Chavez can get away with this because there are a lack of attractive political alternatives to him and because the President there has discretionary powers over large chuncks of oil revenue that noone can question or examine. IMO Chavez is doing this for his own purposes - to benefit himself and to grandstand at the expense of his own citizens, although I am willing to have someone give a decent explanation of why poor citizens should have their national assets used to pay for pointless 'advice' from London bureaucrats, insteda of sold and the money used to invest in crumbling infrastructure and other public goods.

First of all there are mechanisms to keep Chavez in check: for one he is subject to recall at any time and has been on a number of occassions, hes far more accountable than Tony Blair is.

Secondly the Venezuelan government puts more revenue from oil into poverty elimination than any other government in the world. That the have abundance of oil and are using a faction of it to show solidarity with poor communities not just in London but also across the Americas and beyond which simply doesn't back your assertion that this is a transfer of wealth from "rich to poor".

 

[ska invita]

Tourism is far more dependent on good feedback from other people travelling there and good reviews, along with good prices and good facilities. All these are far more dependent on investment in tourist infrastructure than on advertising.

Putting up ads helps - thats why we have trillions spent on advertising.

Ken advisers will not have faced anything like the problems and issues faced in places like Caracus

WHo knows whether it will help or not - i don't, but nor do you. It might help. As I said, Ken has being doing city related work for decades, You cant be certain of failure.

Giving away national assets in exchange for inappropriate assistance and for far less than it would fetch if sold on the oil markets is an inexcusable transfer of welath from the poor to the rich.

The oil market is finite, and this deal won't loose them business - they are sitting on decades worth of oil - no one is loosing out becasue of it - the poor in London will gain, as the last two posts clearly point out.

Sometimes there are cases justifiably worth arguing against - this is not one of them, and what makes it funny is that by arguing against it it shows up deep rooted prejudices all the more clearer.

 

[TeeJay]

Isn't it amazing - a socialist Prez who is taking seriously that whole line about the w/c being a global community and helping to subsidise a service that is used mainly by the w/c and poorer communities in London - an example of solidarity that actually does something beyond offering platitudes - and it gets slagged off by a muppet tory(ies) asking 'what do the w/c in Venzuala get from it.'

No matter who puts the question (a conservative politician or otherwise) the question stands.

There is almost no comparison between bing 'poor' in London/UK and being poor in Venezeula: Have a look at this page for Venezuela from the UNDP Human Development Index:

http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/country_fact_sheets/cty_fs_VEN.html

Chavez certainly pays lip service to "whole line about the w/c being a global community" but the reality of what he actually does isn't always the same as the rhetoric - for example he bangs on about 'anti-capitalism'and the evils of America, yet he willingly does a vast amount of business with the US, and makes all his money from doing so. He hasn't made much of a move to diversify his economy and despite the rhetoric he hasn't realigned his economy to be more regionally based (giving away cheap oil doesn't count in this context).

On the 'value' of the consultants...believe it or not, London has a huge amount of expertise in managing and running public services, policing hugely divergent communities etc, and since Chavez is currently effectively rebuillding civic society in Venezuela atm I'm fairy sure that such people will be of value to the people of Venezuela.

Fairly sure? Sorry but the issues faced in Caracus and elsewhere in Venezeula have no parallels in London, and the advisers in London will not have the right skill-sets needed. In any case there is a massive need for investment in basic things like roads, water pipes, electricity, drains and other 'basic' stuff - it doesn't take some highly paid stuffed shirt from London taking a large slice of the money just to turn around and say "X and Y need doing".

Now I'm no cheerleader for Chavez, but shit the man has embarked on a massive national educational drive that's got millions more people reading and funding it with money from oil (which is the econmics of it - he can only keep funding the current social programmes while oil is over $50 a barrel).

I am not taking issue with Cuban doctors or spending on education and health - I am taking issue with this specific idea (and Chavez's oil-based political grandstanding generally). Just because he has some reasonable policies doesn't mean that all his policies are commendable or that London should get invvolved in transparent politically-motiavted bullshit being conducted at the expense of Venezeulan citizens.

 

[TeeJay]

First of all there are mechanisms to keep Chavez in check: for one he is subject to recall at any time and has been on a number of occassions, hes far more accountable than Tony Blair is.

Recall is not the whole story - the Presidency in Venezuela has lots of discretionary powers that are not subject to oversight or any other controls - this includes large chunks of oil money which the President can simple spend on anything they like with no kind of accountability whatsoever.

Secondly the Venezuelan government puts more revenue from oil into poverty elimination than any other government in the world. That the have abundance of oil and are using a faction of it to show solidarity with poor communities not just in London but also across the Americas and beyond which simply doesn't back your assertion that this is a transfer of wealth from "rich to poor".

The fact that Venezuela is so highly reliant on oil is not something it should be proud of - it is a result of not having developed the rest of its economy. It means that it is highly vunerable to movements in the global oil price. It is getting lots of money now (as long as its oil output doesn't collapse again) but this is not a sustainable or secure way of running an economy in the long term and means that other benefits are missing - for example employment outside the oil industry etc. It is not healthy for an economy if it all revolves around one large oil company. Also the fact that it is bringing in a lot of funds at the moment owes everything to oil prices and nothing much to good economic management by Chavez - if oil prices drop then things are going to be far from good there.

Chavez should not be throwing around revenues for political grandstanding - all these revenues should be invested in the Venezeulan people and economy (and notwithstanding the need to diversity beyond oil, there is a major need to keep up invstment in oil as well, not to piss away all the money).

In any case, no matter how many revenues they have now, it doesn't change the issue of transfer from poor to rich.

 

[TeeJay]

Putting up ads helps - thats why we have trillions spent on advertising.

Advertsing can get consumers to buy product A rather than product B, when both are available and have similar prices and attributes.

Advertising aimed at tourists will only be worth it if you sort out the issues at the destination beforehand ... someone isn't going to pop off to Venezuela just on the basis of a glossy ad and in the face of lack of airlines that fly there direct, crime rates, lack of suitable accomodation, poor infrastructure, poor pricing and so forth. Ultimately advertising can only sway people so far if the underlying product has issues and other people's feedback and reviews will have a major impact in a sector like this.

 

[TeeJay]

WHo knows whether it will help or not - i don't, but nor do you. It might help. As I said, Ken has being doing city related work for decades, You cant be certain of failure.

Better to sell the oil at market prices and use the money to hire specialist - who are expert in the issues faced, speak Spanish, will stay on longer, know about Venezuelan issues, government agencies and structures and the culture and society the are operating in.

Why choose them on the basis of a gimmick? Gimmick-policies is exactly what you end up with when so much power is concentrated in the hands of one individual, with no oversight or checks and balances. Does Chavez even have a political party yet? Have the Venezuelan parliament had any chance to debate this? Maybe people should be asking a few more questions about how he operates...

 

[TeeJay]

The oil market is finite, and this deal won't loose them business - they are sitting on decades worth of oil - no one is loosing out becasue of it - the poor in London will gain, as the last two posts clearly point out.

Sorry can you explain this further?

Giving away oil means that revenues will be lost.

In fact Venezeula does operate within a finite annual OPEC production quota which will include any oil, whether it is sold, swapped or given away.

I don't see how you can spin this and deny it, but I am willing to hear you explain in more detail how giving away Venezeulan oil that needs to be pumped and transported is not a loss to the Venezuelan treasury.

 

[ska invita]

sure -

if you have three biscuits and you give one away then yes you loose a biscuit that you could have fed your baby with....but...

If you are the largest oil "producer" outsdie the middle east you have a a shit load of oil (biscuits), enough for decades.

If that month you have a total order for 200million barrels and then next month you have to fill that same order plus a few more barrels at a cheap rate to London, you can do that with no loss, - you have more than enough to fill both requests.

in fact your net gain for that month will be up - the london deal is extra business - its not free (as your post says), its just a competitive rate against the artificially high prices of the period. This is the same deal that has been done with Carribean countries and with providing cheap heating oil to poor households in Massachusettes - none of which was free, just cheaper.

Do you follow what Im getting at?

If you run a huge company - Kellogs say, you can afford to do a buy one get one free sometimes, and still make a profit of it.

Oil has some running costs, but is ultimately free - its there in the ground - selling it cheap still makes money off it.

that extra money trickles down to the Venezuelan poor through the state spending programme.

 

[ska invita]

...oh, and even if no money swaps hands (for which I have seen no evidence, in fact every account I have seen suggest the oil will be cheap not a free exchange), so what?

It will not effect net income from oil one bit, they'll get the services outlined, plus the poor of London will get subsidised travel - no one looses, but anti-Chavez propaganda mearchants.

But again, all acounts I have seen (inlcuding BBC) show that the oil will be sold, just at a discount rate, thereby increasing net profits for the people of Venezuela.

 

[JoePolitix]

The fact that Venezuela is so highly reliant on oil is not something it should be proud of - it is a result of not having developed the rest of its economy. It means that it is highly vunerable to movements in the global oil price. It is getting lots of money now (as long as its oil output doesn't collapse again) but this is not a sustainable or secure way of running an economy in the long term and means that other benefits are missing - for example employment outside the oil industry etc. It is not healthy for an economy if it all revolves around one large oil company. Also the fact that it is bringing in a lot of funds at the moment owes everything to oil prices and nothing much to good economic management by Chavez - if oil prices drop then things are going to be far from good there.

Chavez should not be throwing around revenues for political grandstanding - all these revenues should be invested in the Venezeulan people and economy (and notwithstanding the need to diversity beyond oil, there is a major need to keep up invstment in oil as well, not to piss away all the
money).

Following the political defeat of the CIA backed old oligarchy its true that the reinvigoration of the Venezuelan economy is a direct result of the increase in oil prices, the piller of the Venezuelan economy, but this is a non-exclusive factor.

What is novel about Venezuela today is that the country *is* planting oil in the productive sectors of the economy. Oil revenues are being used for endogenous development. This has been done in a variety of ways such as increasing the royalties the government recieve from the multinational oil companies, the increase of tax revenues, public investment in basic industries, the investment in the social missions to fight unemployment, and the rescue of large unproductive large estates, incorporating thousands of farmers and workers into the productive process.

The result of these "oil sowing" ventures may account for the fact that since 2004 and in spite of the strong growth in oil prices, the non-oil GDP grew significantly faster than the oil GDP, demonstrating the positive impact of oil exports on activities not directly related to crude extraction.

The rightwing media continuously underestimate Chavez, portraying him (often in a crudely racist manner) as an uneducated baffoon who tosses about oil as a his only political weapon. But the truth is that Chavez is a remarkably national leader with an amazing capacity to connect with ordinary Venezuelans. His goals for Venezuela are similar to the post-war social democracies in Europe, the main difference being that the only country's national resources he can exploit are his own.

 

[TeeJay]

This is the kind of bullshit that makes me really wonder what the fuck Chavez has been doing with all the oil revenues since 1997:

"The main highway that links Caracas with its Caribbean seaport and international airport has been closed, perhaps permanently, because a key bridge along the route developed structural fractures due to shifting land. Geologists have been warning since the 1980s that the bridge needed to be replaced but only stopgap measures were taken. Now the bridge is unsafe and out of service. The alternatives for reaching the city from the airport are unappealing: a two hour drive through Colonia Tovar; a two-to-three-hour drive over a twisting, poorly-maintained two-lane road; or a flight to a regional airport in Valencia and then an easier two-hour drive. The government plans to build a new highway to the coast but it will not be ready until 2010. A replacement bridge could be ready by 2007, and a temporary bypass may be ready within a month. The bulk of the country's imports are transported along this highway, so the closure will have a major economic impact." source: http://www.worldtravelwatch.com/arc...-to-caracas-airport-closed-indefinitely.shtml (January 10, 2006)

and:

"Caracas is considered the most crime-ridden city in Latin America after years of escalating violence, but it is hard to prove because the national police essentially shut down their media office two years ago and crime statistics are virtually nonexistent. Some analysts say this is because the police are involved in much of the high profile crime. A recent incident in which three kidnapped boys and their driver were killed by their captors prompted massive street protests and sudden police action, rounding up 21 suspects, six of them Caracas police officers. In other news, the alternate bridge bypass on the road between Caracas and its international airport has been temporarily closed. This bypass was created when the main highway bridge was condemned because of shifting soil. The bypass will be closed regularly between 10 p.m. and 4 a.m., and intermittently at other times. During closures, traffic is being diverted to the old highway and Al Limon Road as well as through Galipan. These routes take significantly longer than the bypass, so expect delays. Police are patrolling the alternate roads, but avoid travel at night if at all possible." (June 02, 2006 here)

The idea that you can get people to go here on holiday with a bit of advertising on London buses is just laughable.

You claim that the Venezeulan economy is doing well and is being diversified - I'd love to see some actual figures that show this. I'd like to think that if I went back there now things would be better than when I was there back in 1998. Hopefully I will be back there within a few years and be able to see for myself and talk to my friends there.

 

[TonkaToy]

I'm a Tory and I really, really can't find anything wrong here. Help!!!

Seriuosly though, while I expect some right wingers to be, how shall I put it, less than pleased about this, I don't think that many people on the right, really give a fuck.

 

[Fruitloop]

What's to dislike, really? Given that historically the vast majority of the oil wealth has gone either overseas or into the pockets of the oligarcos (and then overseas), if any at all is used to benefit ordinary people in Venezuela, no matter how tangentially, then surely it has to be a good thing. Unless you have some weird 'Hugo Chavez killed my dog' axe to grind, I guess.